wainwright1 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I think that they have them all, but are only releasing one type at a time. Ray 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I'm sure Gary won't mind me using his photo, colours aside, what's up with the actual font on the crest? And the print quality of the lining... I'd be a bit annoyed too if I'd bought one of the SECR ones, I think the criticism is justified and If it were my product I'd be a little embarrassed and a bit miffed with the manufacturer. Fortunately I don't think much can go wrong with a black one, we'll see what the finish of the lining is like on the olive one. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 20, 2021 Author Moderators Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: And the print quality of the lining.. In reality you will not see that with your eyes, especially in normal usage. Edwardian is correct in that it has to give a representation and for normal viewing it does just that. I have discussed the lining and crest at some length with the commissioning parties with my thoughts. It could have been better but I only know of one manufacturer that can demonstrate that level of accuracy of multiple tampo print passes. I view it as quite acceptable rather than excellent. There's a mixture of tampo and transfers on the model, arguably some of the more complex lining features may have been more accurate with transfers. None of these elements are relevant to the simpler liveries of course where I think the recipients will be highly delighted. At the time I was getting more critical of the dome and safety valve finish than the lining anyway; that's far more dominant. 5 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 That's better than my lining with a bowpen...... 4 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 2 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: I'm sure Gary won't mind me using his photo, colours aside, what's up with the actual font on the crest? And the print quality of the lining... I'd be a bit annoyed too if I'd bought one of the SECR ones, I think the criticism is justified and If it were my product I'd be a little embarrassed and a bit miffed with the manufacturer. Fortunately I don't think much can go wrong with a black one, we'll see what the finish of the lining is like on the olive one. Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to the scale of magnification of that image? It measures 190mm. horizontally and does not completely cover a single splasher!! You appear not to own one of these SECR locos, but do you spend your time examining your models with a high-powered magnifying glass? CJI. John Isherwood 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2021 I'm sure this could have been done better - but not at this price-point. Offer it at £350 or £400 with near-perfect crests and lining, and you rather more than halve the market, so it ceases to be viable. Every photo I have seen of the whole model gives the impression of a smashing rendition of this glorious scheme. Actually at £200 that's a substantial bargain. 3 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2021 To put things in perspective or proportion or to cut criticism down to size, I've cropped and scaled @Edwardian's photos to somewhere near scale size; of course the size you're seeing will depend on your device: 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Edwardian said: With respect Gary, what a nonsense point on the crests. Each of the examples you give are representations of the real thing, Each differ. You present three different takes on the crest. Each is different, yet each is reasonable. You single out the D's, yet, if one wanted to be picky, one could criticise the other two as having missing colours and overall too much white. I'm not, by the way, and I don't. Truth be told, there will be differences in the result when attempting to reproduce something of such complexity because it cannot be done at dead scale as elements of it are just too small. I take your point, and obviously which crest we find best is very much opinion, personally for me I think the Hattons one is best, but that's just me, I was however expecting the crest to be legible on the D Class as it is the others. 6 hours ago, Edwardian said: Just like the lining. No one could produce Wainwright lining at scale and, if they could, you wouldn't be able to see half of it. Again, yes this is a good point, I was more talking about the quality of the application rather than if it was scale, which on the D is a lower quality that the others, but is not noticeable at "normal viewing distance" it does start to show if you are looking at the model close up, but I don't plan on doing that too much, but given the P was about £100 RRP and the H was about £130(I think, I could be slightly wrong on this) RRP I was expecting the quality to match 6 hours ago, Edwardian said: Bachmann's C was the outlier. with the overall impression distinctly quite far off to the yellow end of the range. I don't have the Bachann C to compare with, otherwise I would have been comparing that as well. but I found the overall impression from 3ft to be reasonable similar colour wise for the D, P, and H 6 hours ago, Edwardian said: There are always some issues worth pointing out, concerns expressing - I'm rather more with you and others on the number slant issue, for instance Yes I chose to ignore the finish on the dome etc as those have been covered enough and are the same on all of them, the number seems to vary so I felt worth showing on my model 6 hours ago, Edwardian said: but other points strike me as mere scab-picking, I'm afraid. I agree, in fact I said as much at the start of my post 48 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: I'm sure this could have been done better - but not at this price-point. I feel this point ignores that others have done it for less Anyway, that's enough of that, let's see a nice gathering of SECR locos! (Ignore the transfers on my kit built D Class, those are the trial transfers to check sizes, there were wrong and have been adjusted accordingly already) Gary 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2021 I note that Fox do transfers for the SECR roundel - how do those compare? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2021 Colour wise very similar to the Hattons crest, but much lower detail 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2021 And looking at that last picture Gary, I see the differences in the crest between the Hatton's P - fresh, clean and unused, and the Rails D at the end of a half days work and a bit smudged with dirt. I have no problem with those differences because they largely reflect the use of the locos in real life. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 I don't supposed a 'P' ever stayed clean and unused for very long ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofga Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) Well I too await the Southern olive green version and hope it is better than the SE&CR model. I must agree with Sam that this really is no better than the Dapol GWR Mogul which sells for much less and pulls about as well. I cannot fathom why they put metallic domes, etc. on the thing but painted the top of the stack a d a number of other fittings with a poor representation of copper/brass—totally ruins the effect. For those who have not seen Sam’s review here is a link: Edited June 20, 2021 by Cofga 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 19 minutes ago, Cofga said: Well I too await the Southern olive green version and hope it is better than the SE&CR model. I must agree with Sam that this really is no better than the Dapol GWR Mogul which sells for much less and pulls about as well. I cannot fathom why they put metallic domes, etc. on the thing but painted the top of the stack a d a number of other fittings with a poor representation of copper/brass—totally ruins the effect. For those who have not seen Sam’s review here is a link: Sorry - but it is the dome that shouts 'toy'; Tri-ang did this with their GWR Single in the 1960s and it looked rubbish even then! Sam who? Oh, the kid who runs trains on the carpet! CJI. 3 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venator Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 For all the issues there may or may not be I am happy that I will in due course have four D Class. £200 seems alot but a few years back I purchased a ready to run SE finecast D in SE&CR livery. I believe parts and materials alone were nearly £200. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted June 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 minute ago, cctransuk said: Sorry - but it is the dome that shouts 'toy'; Tri-ang did this with their GWR Single in the 1960s and it looked rubbish even then! Sam who? Oh, the kid who runs trains on the carpet! CJI. Quite a fair review I thought. It does score relatively highly . But the kid on the carpet is one of the first I’ve seen to substitute the traction tyred drivers with the other pair supplied . Seems to improve running but drastically reduces traction . It seems to be a very light loco . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Legend said: Quite a fair review I thought. It does score relatively highly . But the kid on the carpet is one of the first I’ve seen to substitute the traction tyred drivers with the other pair supplied . Seems to improve running but drastically reduces traction . It seems to be a very light loco . I ignore all reviews, in fact I don't read / watch them. I form my own opinion and, if the product is poor, back it goes. CJI. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 If this thread has confirmed anything for me. It's that there's a huge difference between Criticism, and Constructive Criticism. I'm still really looking forward to getting my mitts on the D, roll on the sunshine version! 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Cofga said: Well I too await the Southern olive green version and hope it is better than the SE&CR model. I must agree with Sam that this really is no better than the Dapol GWR Mogul which sells for much less and pulls about as well. I cannot fathom why they put metallic domes, etc. on the thing but painted the top of the stack a d a number of other fittings with a poor representation of copper/brass—totally ruins the effect. For those who have not seen Sam’s review here is a link: Hmm..... so you are comparing the D with a loco which has far less lining and which is available for a huge number of retailers (I.e. not a retailers exclusive) With that sort of outlook I can see why you like Sam’s trains - he loves to rubbish models as having a poor design while ignoring the fact that in more than a few cases said design is over a decade old and things we take for granted now we’re not thought necessary. If doing comparisons you need to compare like with like - A Bachman City class would be a closer match when all is said and done. Its a mater of fact that the more lining there is, the more time it takes to decorate the loco and the grater the chance of mistakes happening writing off the body shell. As such it’s entirely reasonable to expect the D to retail at a significantly higher prices than the Dapol mogal. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rapidoandy Posted June 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2021 I see people are comparing the cost of models. This cannot really be done - costs in China have gone up tremendously in recent years, so comparing the P class (2018 I think) and the H (Maybe 2017?) with the D is not a fair comparison. It has not been a linear cost increase either so its not even possible to easily work out what the D may have cost to produce in say 2017. Likewise there are so many other variables in model making it is not easy to directly compare any two given models, especially from different manufacturers who may require different margins, spec, volume, timescale etc etc. I do however understand where people come from. They want value for money, detail, accuracy and great running - not all of these go hand in hand and as I tell people producing these fine models is always involves compromise. However, I always ask myself a simple question: Am I happy with the model and do I get value for money against my purchase. I love my model of 737, of course its not perfect - its a model. However I feel it justifies its cost with plenty to spare. Looking at the general consensus here and on other online sources along with talking to people in person I think most people agree. Well done Rails and Dapol! 12 4 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburgt Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) I saw yesterday the youtube movie of Sam’s Trains about his Locomotion SECR D Class nr. 737. Are there some differences with the Dapol SECR D nr. 488 other than the color of the box; black vs green? Edited June 21, 2021 by jburgt 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, jburgt said: I saw yesterday the youtube movie of Sam’s Trains about his Locomotion SECR D Class nr. 737. Are there some differences with the Dapol SECR D nr. 488 other than the color of the box; black vs green? There's an extra incorrect set of lining on the centre firebox boiler band of 737 and its meant to have a semi gloss finish. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 21, 2021 Author Moderators Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said: an extra incorrect set of lining on the centre firebox boiler band of 737 It's correct for how 737 is presented in the NRM. The finish is the same as the Rails version as it was decided not to go with the gloss version after assessment. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, AY Mod said: The finish is the same as the Rails version as it was decided not to go with the gloss version after assessment. I wish you hadn’t said that, I chose not to get that because I didn’t want gloss, now I’m tempted . . . 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 C'mon, admit it - that's the excuse you were waiting for all along ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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