Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class

[Graham_Muz]

57 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Talking of over height - I suspect 1734 would have lost its capuchon long before it gained Bulleid black ...... all photos I've found ( all in B.R. days* ) show it without : could do with an earlier photo or three.

 

* by this time it had acquired Maunsell buffers on the front.

 

Yes you are correct and something I had forgotten about. The shorter larger diameter capuchon chimneys that had replaced the original copper chimneys in c1910s were gradually replaced with a plain topped version after Grouping, and I don't think a list of dates exists in one place, although 1493 kept the capuchon chimney until withdrawal, as I haven't decided which number to renumber mine too, that might become a candidate.

 

I've not seen a BR Lined version yet to see what chimney style it has, have they tooled for three chimneys? 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Graham_Muz

[Methuselah]

I'm new to this type - and the SECR generally - and have a couple of queries for the experts here.

• I see the Rails version lacks the rear set of lining on the boiler that the NRM version has. Which was prevalent in service....?
• Any reason these are being made with a matt finish - were the originals not gloss - like the real NRM example....?
• The Rails version is available in a DCC Sound version..... I'm a bit confused about whether the NRM version is available in a Sound version...like the Rails version...?

I have to say, these look gorgeous in the original SECR livery.

[Pre Grouping fan]

1 hour ago, Methuselah said:

I'm new to this type - and the SECR generally - and have a couple of queries for the experts here.

• I see the Rails version lacks the rear set of lining on the boiler that the NRM version has. Which was prevalent in service....?
• Any reason these are being made with a matt finish - were the originals not gloss - like the real NRM example....?
• The Rails version is available in a DCC Sound version..... I'm a bit confused about whether the NRM version is available in a Sound version...like the Rails version...?

I have to say, these look gorgeous in the original SECR livery.

It was discussed either here or on the main Rails thread that the extra lining on the NRM model is corect as per 737 now but incorrect as it shouldn't be there.

 

The NRM decided against the gloss finish in the end, personally I like the satin finish.

 

If there's no option to buy a sound fitted model on Locomotion Models website then I'd assume it isn't available to purchase. You would have to buy and fit your own sound. 

[tractionman]

2 hours ago, Methuselah said:

I'm new to this type - and the SECR generally - and have a couple of queries for the experts here.

• I see the Rails version lacks the rear set of lining on the boiler that the NRM version has. Which was prevalent in service....?
• Any reason these are being made with a matt finish - were the originals not gloss - like the real NRM example....?
• The Rails version is available in a DCC Sound version..... I'm a bit confused about whether the NRM version is available in a Sound version...like the Rails version...?

I have to say, these look gorgeous in the original SECR livery.

 

I thought I'd seen somewhere that the original SECR livery version had sold out at Rails but I see it's listed on Dapol's website in stock

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/4S-027-001-available

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

[PaulRhB]

On 03/07/2021 at 11:19, Nile said:

 

I didn't have to pay to collect mine, have you been had?

No unfortunately it’s a policy but most post offices are too embarrassed to ask for it or too afraid of the potential angry customer holding up the queue. I was told when it first came in and asked to speak to a manager as I hadn’t been informed of the delivery to be in for it and was actually in but discovered a slip in the lobby. They just waived the fee instead. Polite but firm works with this rather dodgy policy. 
 

Edited July 5, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Wickham Green too]

IF we knew exactly WHEN postie was going to arrive it might be possible to schedule one's day to suit - mine turns up anywhere between 10AM - correction 09.45 - and 1.30PM on weekdays so even if I'm expecting a 'large' delivery he's tricky to work round ............... my Oxford tank wagon arrived the day BEFORE Royal Mail said it would the last time I'd looked on their tracker - bloody glad I didn't have to pay a fee to collect that !

Edited July 5, 2021 by Wickham Green too

[Nile]

To complicate it a bit more they are using Parcel Force, which could call at any time of day without warning. DPD wins here, with a text and email giving a one hour time slot for delivery. But they are not an option here  :-( .

[Les1952]

11 hours ago, Nile said:

To complicate it a bit more they are using Parcel Force, which could call at any time of day without warning. DPD wins here, with a text and email giving a one hour time slot for delivery. But they are not an option here  :-( .

 

My last delivery from DPD had to be rescued from their "safe place"  in the dustbin......

 

Les

 

[Rich46]

I received my BR black lined model today. It is a beautiful model. However when checking my photo albums and images on line it seems that the lining may be incorrect. On 31574 it appears that the cab is not lined or it has been obliterated by dirt. Each wheel arch is individually lined only. They are not linked by continuous lining. On 31577 the lining on the rear wheel arch is incorporated into the cab side lining which extends only to just underneath the handrail. It then goes straight across and follows the outline of the rear cab edge back down to the wheel arch. All lining appears  to be red and grey. I can't make out any red only lining. The curved beading is not lined. I think I will modify my 'D' to 31577 as I rather like the lined out cab. As mentioned previously I'm pretty sure the emblem on the right side of the tender should be facing forward, i.e. to the right and not be a standard left facing one. None of this detracts from the model for me as I am quite happy to make these amendments.

[Graham_Muz]

31 minutes ago, Rich46 said:

I received my BR black lined model today. It is a beautiful model. However when checking my photo albums and images on line it seems that the lining may be incorrect. On 31574 it appears that the cab is not lined or it has been obliterated by dirt. Each wheel arch is individually lined only. They are not linked by continuous lining. On 31577 the lining on the rear wheel arch is incorporated into the cab side lining which extends only to just underneath the handrail. It then goes straight across and follows the outline of the rear cab edge back down to the wheel arch. All lining appears  to be red and grey. I can't make out any red only lining. The curved beading is not lined. I think I will modify my 'D' to 31577 as I rather like the lined out cab. As mentioned previously I'm pretty sure the emblem on the right side of the tender should be facing forward, i.e. to the right and not be a standard left facing one. None of this detracts from the model for me as I am quite happy to make these amendments.

 

Ignoring the overweight numbers I believe the model lining is correct as per the image below of obviously a cleaner cab side. The right side emblem on the model tender is as you say facing the wrong way.

 

[Rich46]

It just goes to show you can't have enough pictures! Unfortunately the images I saw didn't have any dates so I don't know where or when they were taken.

[Wickham Green too]

Umpteen variants - and mini-variants - of lining are detailed in https://hmrs.org.uk/southern-style-after-nationalisation-1948-1964.html

[Venator]

12 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

My last delivery from DPD had to be rescued from their "safe place"  in the dustbin......

 

Les

 

The delivery I had for the first (n.o 488) was found thrown over the fence and absolutely soaking. Hoping nothing is broken.

[Compound2632]

12 hours ago, Rich46 said:

However when checking my photo albums and images on line it seems that the lining may be incorrect. On 31574 it appears that the cab is not lined or it has been obliterated by dirt. Each wheel arch is individually lined only. They are not linked by continuous lining. On 31577 the lining on the rear wheel arch is incorporated into the cab side lining which extends only to just underneath the handrail. It then goes straight across and follows the outline of the rear cab edge back down to the wheel arch. All lining appears  to be red and grey. I can't make out any red only lining. The curved beading is not lined. I think I will modify my 'D' to 31577 as I rather like the lined out cab. As mentioned previously I'm pretty sure the emblem on the right side of the tender should be facing forward, i.e. to the right and not be a standard left facing one. None of this detracts from the model for me as I am quite happy to make these amendments.

 

There was discussion of this up-thread.

 

11 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

Ignoring the overweight numbers I believe the model lining is correct as per the image below of obviously a cleaner cab side. 

 

 

The lack of the cream / grey line is peculiar - perhaps peculiar to a particular painter at Ashford.

 

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Umpteen variants - and mini-variants - of lining are detailed in https://hmrs.org.uk/southern-style-after-nationalisation-1948-1964.html

 

No two the same?

 

It does seem to have come down to individual interpretation of the rather general (though in some respects very precise) lining instructions. All versions have their own internal logic!

[Wickham Green too]

There were specific changes over time, though.

[Rich46]

I'd forgotten I've got the Southern Style after Nationalisation book. Page 70 does indeed show 31737 lined out exactly as done by Rails/Dapol. Introduced in August 1952 the images I saw on line were presumably before this date. I will leave my model as it is although I may have to correct the numbers and the emblem on the tender right hand side.

[Invicta Informant]

Received my BR Lined Black one.

 

All four of the buffers were off and so too was the cab roof (all of which can be secured by a spot of glue), but all the other details are there and not damaged.

 

The right side tender emblem facing the wrong way is annoying, but it still does not detract that the model is pretty sound.

[Graham_Muz]

16 minutes ago, Invicta Informant said:

Received my BR Lined Black one.

 

All four of the buffers were off and so too was the cab roof (all of which can be secured by a spot of glue), but all the other details are there and not damaged.

 

The right side tender emblem facing the wrong way is annoying, but it still does not detract that the model is pretty sound.

 

Thanks for the picture of the BR Lined Black version, it confirms that like the SR Sunshine version it has the incorrect capuchon chimney, and the front driving wheels having blackened rims unlike the rear drivers. (I wont mention the silver handrails....doh just have). 

[Graham_Muz]

A tale of if it is on t'internet it must be true...

 

I note that the Model Rail review states that the length of the D Class is 57' and in 1:76 scale that's 228.6mm whilst the model is only 220mm so 8mm to short, really?

 

However the SR weight drawing shows the over buffer length as 54' 11.7/8” which is a scale 220mm so the model is correct...

 

... source of the incorrect 57' dimension...

 

...err...

 

...the Science Museum's own website of course  https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co205731/south-eastern-chatham-railway-class-d-4-4-0-steam-locomotive-no-737-steam-locomotive

Edited July 6, 2021 by Graham_Muz
Typo

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

I note that the Model Rail review states that the length of the D Class is 57' and in 1:76 scale that's 228.6mm whilst the model is only 220mm so 8mm to short, really?

 

However the SR weight drawing shows the over buffer length as 54' 11.8/7" which is a scale 220mm so the model is correct...

 

... and they don't even understand 4 mm/ft scale (1:76.2) at which 57 ft is 228.0 mm! But if the model is actually 200 mm long over buffers, it's 0.0417 mm too long*. I'd be sending mine back in disgust if I'd bought one!

 

*Reading your 11.8/7" as eleven and seven-eighths inches.

[Steamport Southport]

42 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

...the Science Museum's own website of course  https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co205731/south-eastern-chatham-railway-class-d-4-4-0-steam-locomotive-no-737-steam-locomotive

 

 

Quote

No. 737 was withdrawn from service in November 1956 and entered the national collection in 1975.

 

So what was it doing between 1956 and 1975.... 

 

It was in the National Collection. Most of that time spent on display at Clapham after a short time spent at Tweedmouth.

 

I take it they mean "Moved to the NRM at York in 1975".

 

 

 

Jason

Edited July 6, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

 

So what was it doing between 1956 and 1975.... 

 

It was in the National Collection. Most of that time spent on display at Clapham after a short time spent at Tweedmouth.

 

I take it they mean "Moved to the NRM at York in 1975".

 

 

 

Jason

 

Wasn't the "National Collection" actually created in 1975 by amalgamating the collections of the British Transport Commission, the Science Museum and probably one or two others?

 

Les

 

[Steamport Southport]

27 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

Wasn't the "National Collection" actually created in 1975 by amalgamating the collections of the British Transport Commission, the Science Museum and probably one or two others?

 

Les

 

 

I'm not sure, maybe an administrative thing.

 

I've got books and magazines from the 1960s and they call it the National Collection. So the term must have been in use.

 

My main point was how poorly the page was set up. I thought this was a major museum dedicated to scholarly research.

 

If I was reading that I would be wondering who owned it between 1956 and 1975. Was it in private hands? Was it abroad? Was it languishing in a scrapyard for twenty years then rescued? That's twenty years of it's life seemingly unaccounted for.

 

 

 

Jason

 

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

.... Was it in private hands? Was it abroad? Was it languishing in a scrapyard for twenty years ....

..... or even an old London Transport bus garage ??!?

[CUCKOO LINE]

It was restored in 1960 and placed in the Clapham Museum. There are apparently photos of it there in the 1960s, although they are on a pay for them website !