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Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class


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4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Plus a good set of drawings?

That depends on the drawings  Some of Swindon's could be less than reliable in terms of what one could find on what the works bult as opposed to what the drawing said they would build ;)  and equally I doubt if anybody's drawings ever accurately the reflected the exact detail to be found on every engine in any particular class at any point in time.

 

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Let's not forget that the SECR locomotive is a Locomotion model and as such a portion of the profit is supposed to support the NRM and its collection.

The question of pricing over a range of locos models in various different liveries is even more v complex than that.  For a start in order to recover costs obviously every common procedure (in the tooling and manufactiure of all variants) has to be recovered and teh way that alone is recovered can vary according to the number of each variant produced and their saleability (which hopefully matches the number made of course).  But when it comes to livery variants further factors come into the cost equation - for example a plain black model will obviously cost less to produce the colouring and livery than a fully lined model.  But equally it might not sell in such great numbers as the more fancy and colourful liveries so the overall amount the manufacturer needs to 'recover per loco' on few black models might be even more than the need to 'recover per loco' on a far more numerous lined out model.  So this can help to explain why prices might not vary much, if at all, across a range of differently liveried models which are otherwise the same.

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Just a reminder to the Ford brigade (it has to be black); it is the model that is produced in conjunction with Locomotion, not a specific livery version which may, or may not, be like the one in the museum.  [See the very first post for verification.]  So the black BR version also contributes to the museum coffers.

 

EDit to add:  My use of SECR loco was to differentiate between the D Class and the other cheaper locos being used in comparison, not to suggest a livery version.

Edited by Andy Hayter
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57 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

in which case one could argue that you're getting the ornate livery for free. 

 

Or that it's subsidised by the 'plainer' liveries. Not that I'm complaining.

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10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

That depends on the drawings  Some of Swindon's could be less than reliable in terms of what one could find on what the works bult as opposed to what the drawing said they would build ;)  and equally I doubt if anybody's drawings ever accurately the reflected the exact detail to be found on every engine in any particular class at any point in time.

 

 

True enough but good original drawings must provide a solid foundation in terms of dimensions etc. Of course photos provide information on how the prototype changed over time.

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1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Just a reminder to the Ford brigade (it has to be black); it is the model that is produced in conjunction with Locomotion, not a specific livery version which may, or may not, be like the one in the museum.  [See the very first post for verification.]  So the black BR version also contributes to the museum coffers.

 

EDit to add:  My use of SECR loco was to differentiate between the D Class and the other cheaper locos being used in comparison, not to suggest a livery version.

 

Forty pounds is more than a "contribution" to the "museum coffers".

I won't pay it and I think there'll be serious resistance to this price - and I'm a SECR modeller.

They should take soundings from the community before committing to a large volume run.

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Your call of course.  No one is trying to force you to buy one but it was you who essentially asked why there might be price difference to other models of not dissimilar arrangement.

 

It is worth remembering that there were similar price misgivings when the GNR Stirling Single was announced.  Same sort of price range as the D Class.

 

As to gauging the market before production, the models are on pre-order which is probably a good gauge of the market.

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3 hours ago, Forester said:

 

Forty pounds is more than a "contribution" to the "museum coffers".

I won't pay it and I think there'll be serious resistance to this price - and I'm a SECR modeller.

They should take soundings from the community before committing to a large volume run.


How then would they do that ?  Why ever might that be necessary in any case....to protect the “community” from economic damage or offended sensibilities perhaps ?  The risk is theirs to take and not ours.Or am I missing something here ? 
 

If you canvassed every model project before committing to production nothing would be produced before most of us would be history. As you say..walk away if you object....your choice to join the “resistance “.Why make such an issue of a trivial matter ?

 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Forester said:

 

Forty pounds is more than a "contribution" to the "museum coffers".

I won't pay it and I think there'll be serious resistance to this price - and I'm a SECR modeller.

They should take soundings from the community before committing to a large volume run.

I’d ask a professional loco builder for a price on an etched one and see if a plastic one in black suddenly seems better value. 
The big investment in this is the tooling not the final liveries. That means that cost for a relatively small production run balanced against likely sales. This isn’t a celebrity loco like the GNR single. 
As you point out you don’t have to buy and if enough think that then it may be cancelled but so far it seems to be progressing well and is in the same price bracket as the new release of the Bachmann model so no one is likely to make it cheaper. 

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38 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I’d ask a professional loco builder for a price on an etched one and see if a plastic one in black suddenly seems better value. 
The big investment in this is the tooling not the final liveries. That means that cost for a relatively small production run balanced against likely sales. This isn’t a celebrity loco like the GNR single. .........

As a fully paid-up member of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway Society ( SECSoc ) I object to the 'D' class - 737 in particular - not being considered a celebrity.

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32 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

As a fully paid-up member of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway Society ( SECSoc ) I object to the 'D' class - 737 in particular - not being considered a celebrity.

I assume that’s with tongue firmly in cheek ;) 

As a director of the Stoke, Easthill & Creech Rly we have ordered one because it’ll look nice alongside the C, H & P. Bert is a bit bemused as how the Directors think it will fit in the little shed, he’s even more bemused when the fancy notepaper it was announced on had CME after Bert’s name. Bert thinks the Directors maybe need to spend more on their fancy education, than gurt big engines, and learn how to spell. Mrs Bert wants to know who Bert’s being telling about this ‘new position’ and she’ll be double checking there are no cracks in the curtains and the doors are locked!

 

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2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I’d ask a professional loco builder for a price on an etched one and see if a plastic one in black suddenly seems better value. 
The big investment in this is the tooling not the final liveries. That means that cost for a relatively small production run balanced against likely sales. This isn’t a celebrity loco like the GNR single. 
As you point out you don’t have to buy and if enough think that then it may be cancelled but so far it seems to be progressing well and is in the same price bracket as the new release of the Bachmann model so no one is likely to make it cheaper. 

The version in the "Showman's Engine" livery should give the D celebrity status at least equal to that of the single among those who crave such ostentation.:devil: 

 

John

 

 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

It's the celebrity locos that sell, which is a source of frustration when trying to build up a balanced stud for one's layout. Surely as a SECR modeller you're thinking: "Not another flash Wainwright loco - why can't they do an F?"

This SECR modeller is thinking that he'd prefer a class for which there isn't a kit. The F (and associated classes) is available as a printed kit. If anybody wants to go weird and Kentish, the LCDR A, A1, A2 classes need doing, and also all the Kirtley express engines (not that I personally need the latter).

 

None of which stopped me from ordering a D.

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3 minutes ago, Guy Rixon said:

This SECR modeller is thinking that he'd prefer a class for which there isn't a kit.

 

Not a good kit. Perhaps the O is the biggest hole there.

 

But apologies, now I'm wishlisting rather than focusing on the bounty on offer.

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

The version in the "Showman's Engine" livery should give the D celebrity status at least equal to that of the single among those who crave such ostentation.:devil: 

 

John

 

 

No, I don't 'do' bling ....................... beauty is more than ( paint ) skin deep when it comes to the 'D' class - I've ordered one in black with just a hint of sunshine.

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  • 2 months later...
On ‎03‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 19:46, Forester said:

Trying to get my head around the fact that Dapol expect to produce their new Manor for an affordable just under £160 but in conjunction with Rails the D class is expected to be an unaffordable "hopefully just under £200".

Puzzled.

 

Remember its a special commission .  I suspect , though that £200 is deemed the new norm for commissions . Rails have the Bachmann 812 also at £200

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16 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I'd say it's likely the full fat SECR and maybe the SR Olive liveries will have a slight premium over the plain liveries. 

 

That's in line with the Rails/Bachmann Caley 812 locos where the fully lined Car blue is has a £20 premium last time I checked. 

 

That seems to be a Bachmann thing. It did not happen with the Dapol/Rails Terriers, Hattons P and Hornby's H class.

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