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Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class


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3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

SR 1730.jpg

 

 

I agree about the shade of green, but that under-boiler detailing looks lovely!

Rather like Hornby's Drummond 700 (while disdainfully looking at Bachy's C class...pah!)

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22 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

I agree about the shade of green, but that under-boiler detailing looks lovely!

Rather like Hornby's Drummond 700 (while disdainfully looking at Bachy's C class...pah!)

 

It has not been said yet, but this is all part of Rails plans to sell some masquerading as T9s......

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Something looks "off" about the SE&CR version as a whole, I'm not sure what, but things I can pin down are, the red on the valances looks too bright, and the crest looks a mess (I assume this is much crisper in person?)

 

It looks totally different to the unofficial pictures that had to be removed the other day, which in my opinion looked much better.

 

Gary

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9 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

It looks totally different to the unofficial pictures that had to be removed the other day, which in my opinion looked much better.

I’ve just compared them and it looks the same to me although those above are in a white studio compared to the wooden table on the original pics so there’s a tiny bit more warmth to the originals due to reflected light off the wood. 

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6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I’ve just compared them and it looks the same to me although those above are in a white studio compared to the wooden table on the original pics so there’s a tiny bit more warmth to the originals due to reflected light off the wood. 

 

I was comparing them both before and as I wrote it, they are not the same. I don't want to share pictures that Rails have asked to be removed, so will not show my findings here, but instead leave it to anyone else that has a copy, or can find somewhere it hasn't been removed (there is at least one place)

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Both are 488 in the pics I’m looking at. 737 is the NRM edition with semi gloss finish so will reflect light very slightly differently. 
488 is the top photo Andy posted, 737 at the bottom. 

Edited by PaulRhB
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OK, I didn't notice 488 was in the original post, mea culpa, the pictures looked to be 2 photos of the same model in that post to me at first glance

 

but 488 in the top photo still looks totally different to the 488 in the unofficial photo, and the unofficial one still looks better (to my eye), it would be nice to know which looks closer to the "in the flesh" look of the loco, but I don't expect anyone to give that away with the earlier one not supposed to have existed

Edited by BlueLightning
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3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I have already gone back with that directly and it's already been noted. It looks like a Drummond or Urie shade but I wouldn't know how that reconciles with lettering/number styles/colouration without more digging.

 

3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

That is not even "olive". It's LSWR green. How weird!

 

Edit: I also have my doubts about the lining of the splashers on the BR version and consequent odd placing of the number. But I will need to find some photos to confirm that.

 

Re-edit: I have found photos that show the number in different locations on the cabside. Some have the splasher lining as shown on the livery sample. Others have the lining carried up from the splasher around the cabside and the number lower down (less pretty). All of them seem to show no lining on the boiler but that may just be down to a lack of cleaning.

 

Shortly after grouping took effect, the new Southern Railway Company adopted the last LSWR colour scheme (Urie  Sage Green) for repaints while the new organisation finalised its 'cooperate image' in modern speak.

 

It is thus quite possible for some ex SECR locos to have appeared in the Urie green livery along with the early 'A' prefix given to all ex SECR locos up till the mid 1930s.

 

However the dropping of the 'A' prefix occurred long after Maunsell Olive green had been specified and extensively used for Southern Railway locos. Therefore a ex SECR loco in Urie sage Green with a 1xxx number is totally factious and should not be appearing in model form.

 

Edited by phil-b259
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The SR green version: the number on the tender side looks rather odd - too compressed. I'm no expert at all on liveries south of the river but shouldn't the tender digits and spacing have the same proportions as those used for the SECR grey livery, from which, I presume, this aspect of Southern livery was derived?

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41 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Shortly after grouping took effect, the new Southern Railway Company adopted the last LSWR colour scheme (Urie  Sage Green) for repaints while the new organisation finalised its 'cooperate image' in modern speak.

 

It is thus quite possible for some ex SECR locos to have appeared in the Urie green livery along with the early 'A' prefix given to all ex SECR locos up till the mid 1930s.

 

However the dropping of the 'A' prefix occurred long after Maunsell Olive green had been specified and extensively used for Southern Railway locos. Therefore a ex SECR loco in Urie sage Green with a 1xxx number is totally factious and should not be appearing in model form.

 

Irrespective, Rails' specification states the colour to be

 

Quote

4S-027-002         D Class Southern Lined Maunsell Olive Green No. 1730


Which is what I, and others, expect it to be.

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2 hours ago, truffy said:

 

 

Irrespective, Rails' specification states the colour to be

 


Which is what I, and others, expect it to be.

Southern greens are a horticultural nightmare ....... the early colour inherited from the LSWR was "Described as "sage green" which... it certainly was not. .... the colour was a true olive green, exactly the colour of a good green olive." ...... this was superseded by a darker colour described as "moderate olive green" or "dark olive green" ............ certainly NOT the colour of a good green olive.

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12 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Southern greens are a horticultural nightmare ....... the early colour inherited from the LSWR was "Described as "sage green" which... it certainly was not. .... the colour was a true olive green, exactly the colour of a good green olive." ...... this was superseded by a darker colour described as "moderate olive green" or "dark olive green" ............ certainly NOT the colour of a good green olive.

Nevertheless, "Maunsell Olive Green", although interpreted slightly differently by different manufacturers, is decidedly darker than the colour presented.

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4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

Shortly after grouping took effect, the new Southern Railway Company adopted the last LSWR colour scheme (Urie  Sage Green) for repaints while the new organisation finalised its 'cooperate image' in modern speak.

 

It is thus quite possible for some ex SECR locos to have appeared in the Urie green livery along with the early 'A' prefix given to all ex SECR locos up till the mid 1930s.

 

However the dropping of the 'A' prefix occurred long after Maunsell Olive green had been specified and extensively used for Southern Railway locos. Therefore a ex SECR loco in Urie sage Green with a 1xxx number is totally factious and should not be appearing in model form.

 

According to the colour patches in my copy of HMRS Livery Register No.3, LSWR and Southern, the loco above is not painted in Urie LSWR Loco Green.  The colour is too light.

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Thanks to  Andy for the more official photos of the model. 

 

I've ordered the SECR version so most interested in that particular model... 

 For me there's a few things I'm sure will be resolved and fixed in a future sample.. 

 Things that stand out the darker red on the running plate / chassis is too red looks more brown in natural light... 

Some lining missing along the saddle and top of the frames.. 

The brass work is very dull Matt which is a shame hopefully can brighten that up a bit...

Thr letters look yellow rather than gold spacing doesn't look quite right either... 

But certainly not bad for a 1st decorated sample. 

 

And yes the southern version is a bit pea green rather than olive green. 

Edited by Bluebell Model Railway
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8 minutes ago, col.stephens said:

According to the colour patches in my copy of HMRS Livery Register No.3, LSWR and Southern,

Your copy has colour patches? Mine doesn't! :(

 

In any case, be careful with CMYK to RGB (capture/screen dependent)

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I'm not sure who picked the so called olive green on the samples, but it's nothing like the light or dark olive used by the Southern, nor is it anything like Urie LSWR. It's a truly awful colour which I sincerely hope they get right.

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21 minutes ago, truffy said:

Your copy has colour patches? Mine doesn't! :(

 

In any case, be careful with CMYK to RGB (capture/screen dependent)

The original print included the colour patches as Appendix 4.  They were omitted in the later reprint.

 

Terry

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13 minutes ago, col.stephens said:

The original print included the colour patches as Appendix 4.  They were omitted in the later reprint.

Well that's a bid old BOOOOH! to HMRS then!

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2 hours ago, truffy said:

Nevertheless, "Maunsell Olive Green", although interpreted slightly differently by different manufacturers, is decidedly darker than the colour presented.

........ and as shown on the few colour photos from that era in "The Big Four in Colour".

 

Last I heard was that the relevant volume of "Southern Style" went to the printers shortly before lockdown ......... even if they've managed to fit it in among other things with a limited workforce, there's nobody at the HMRS to distribute it at present. 

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I'd have thought those shiny handrails and smokebox door handles would be painted to match the smokebox/boiler from SR ownership onwards, and certainly on the black ones. Apologies if this is already on the change list! I can see these samples match the livery artwork that was available before pretty closely, and they were shown as polished on there too in fairness. I have the lined black loco on order with a view to representing it seeing out its final years in traffic on unglamorous stopping passenger work, whereas to my mind the sample for this loco in particular looks far more like it's been specially prepared for working an RCTS or SLS special.

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20 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

The sunshine lettering looks a bit thick, particularly the numbers but perhaps it's just the angle?

 

An undated view of Southern Railway, Wainwright 'D' class 4-4-0 No 1057 in unlined black livery and sporting Bulleid 'sunshine' style markings is depicted here in the company of an SR horse box at Ashford atation. Mike Morant collection

 

As has been stated, they very obviously managed to stick the wrong green on the SR one. I presumed it'll be the same shade as the SR Terrier? 

 

Edit: it does look sexy in wartime black though. 

 

Also I'm sure it's been picked up but just incase, the number on the buffer beam of 1730 appears to be in white instead of yellow. 

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