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Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class


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1 hour ago, Venator said:

 

Well I am born and bred Ashford!  What's left of the works is about 10 minutes cycle from home. I get deeply irritated that so many 'southern' dvds and books really mean the ex LSWR territory, almost as though the eastern and central sections didn't exist. 

 

I can relate, I am born and bred Brighton and have noticed the LSWR section seems to be a bit over represented in RTR  compared with other regions but slowly more Central and Eastern stock is emerging

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34 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Well I am born and bred Ashford!  What's left of the works is about 10 minutes cycle from home. I get deeply irritated that so many 'southern' dvds and books really mean the ex LSWR territory, almost as though the eastern and central sections didn't exist. 

I am the same as you. I grew up on the Romney marsh. I used to listen to the older generation talk about the now vanished stations at Lydd and new Romney. The next layout is gonna be a fictional layout based on the kent coast line with a branch that connects with the marsh link line. 
Back to the D class though they look amazing. And can’t come soon enough. 
 

big James 

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2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

My current layout no. But the next one will be or at least be Sheffield Park in early 20th century colours (I know its slightly outside the SECR, but I have a choice of preservation or early 20th century setting).

 

This year we should have rolling stock for the following SECR trains:

1/ 2 sets of Dark lake birdcages

2/ 1 set of Wellington Brown birdcages

3/ a rake of 6 6 wheeler coaches

4/ a rake of 6 4 wheeler coaches

5/ a mixed rake of 4  4 & 6  wheeler coaches

6/ an LCDR train (4&6 wheelers) kits to be built, rake of 3

7/ a military train WWI

8/ a private owner train (kentish, various RTR items)

9/ a Maunsel SECR goods train (mix of RTR and Cambrian kits)

10/ Early goods train, mix of LCDR, SER, SECR Wainwright items (kits and RTR)

 

Locos for these:

DCC

Wainwright D class sound fitted

Wainwright C class sound fitted

Wainwright simplified C class plain DCC fitted

Wainwright H class sound fitted

Wainwright H class plain DCC fitted

Wainwright P class sound fitted

Wainwright P class plain DCC fitted

Wainwright Terrier plain DCC fitted

 

Non DCC - all Wainwright

Wainwright D class

Wainwright C class

Wainwright H class

Wainwright P class

Wainwright Terrier

 

Non DCC - all grey

N class

D class

C class

J class (kit)

P class

 

There are a couple of old Wrenn R1 class laying around but we'll doubtless add additional locos over time.

 

 

 

 

That's very interesting. What's going into the military train ?

 

By the way, have you won the lottery ?

 

All the best

Ray

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10 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

That's very interesting. What's going into the military train ?

 

By the way, have you won the lottery ?

 

All the best

Ray

 

Various wagons collected over the years by Bachmann, Dapol and Hornby.

I did not win the lottery, but will admit that this year is rather an exceptional year for the amount of SECR items coming out.

The rest was brought previously. Though I cannot see myself buying further Cs, Ds, Hs nor birdcages.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

Various wagons collected over the years by Bachmann, Dapol and Hornby.

I did not win the lottery, but will admit that this year is rather an exceptional year for the amount of SECR items coming out.

The rest was brought previously. Though I cannot see myself buying further Cs, Ds, Hs nor birdcages.

I have also collected a fair selection of SE & CR models for my Hawkhurst layout. I have two of the D class on order, full Wainwright and battleship grey. 

I would like to see Hornby do the H class in simplified Wainwright and battleship grey. There is also scope for the Hattons P class in simplified Wainwright.

I am doubtful about the Hattons 4 & 6 wheeled stock. I have already commented on their choice of livery and the pictures of the preproduction model released this week appear to show a shade of red even more leery than which they originally showed and not convincing. I would hope that they run them again in the dark red livery similar to to the Bachmann coaches.

 

All the best

Ray

Edited by wainwright1
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3 hours ago, Venator said:

 

Well I am born and bred Ashford!  What's left of the works is about 10 minutes cycle from home. I get deeply irritated that so many 'southern' dvds and books really mean the ex LSWR territory, almost as though the eastern and central sections didn't exist. 

 

1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

I can relate, I am born and bred Brighton and have noticed the LSWR section seems to be a bit over represented in RTR  compared with other regions but slowly more Central and Eastern stock is emerging

 

That is basically down to Electrification - all the 'sexy' stuff (i.e. namers) wasn't as long lived as the western section equivalents.

 

Post 1932 (Brighton), 1935 (Eastbourne) and 1938 (Portsmouth) there was precious little need for express passenger class locos on the central section.

 

This was repeated in 1959 (ex LCDR) and 1961 (ex SER)

 

Meanwhile over on the south western division express steam to Southampton and Exeter reigned supreme until the mid 1960s.

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23 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

I am doubtful about the Hattons 4 & 6 wheeled stock. I have already commented on their choice of livery and the pictures of the preproduction model released this week appear to show a shade of red even more leery than which they originally showed and not convincing. I would hope that they run them again in the dark red livery similar to to the Bachmann coaches.

 

 

If the KESR can run SECR red coaches then thats good enough of an excuse for me.

 

In any case given the Hattons coaches are 'Generic' rather than faithful models of actual SECR stock its not as though anyone can definitively say the livery is 'wrong' to the prototype (because there isn't one).

 

That said a future release in Bachmann / Bluebell Purple-ish colours would be welcomed by me too.

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5 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Gosh that's about 2ks worth of birdcages and Ds, that's dedicated collecting! 

 

It's pretty bloody alarming how quickly things can add up. 

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

I have also collected a fair selection of SE & CR models for my Hawkhurst layout. I have two of the D class on order, full Wainwright and battleship grey. 

I would like to see Hornby do the H class in simplified Wainwright and battleship grey. There is also scope for the Hattons P class in simplified Wainwright.

I am doubtful about the Hattons 4 & 6 wheeled stock. I have already commented on their choice of livery and the pictures of the preproduction model released this week appear to show a shade of red even more leery than which they originally showed and not convincing. I would hope that they run them again in the dark red livery similar to to the Bachmann coaches.

 

All the best

Ray

 

The Genisis coaches are sort of stop gap until I find the time and materials to research and build better. Say in about 20 years!

Wagons are relatively easy to turn out when kits exist.

 

If the H class appears in grey and the P in that Maunsell green, I will doubtless buy them. 

Edited by JSpencer
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On 09/05/2021 at 18:42, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

I can relate, I am born and bred Brighton and have noticed the LSWR section seems to be a bit over represented in RTR  compared with other regions but slowly more Central and Eastern stock is emerging

At a rough guess I'd say in the last 5 years the SE&CR section has done very well, perhaps on balance better than the LSWR? I think the LBSC could probably do with a few more releases, perhaps a K and another tank?

 

On 09/05/2021 at 19:19, Big James said:

I am the same as you. I grew up on the Romney marsh. I used to listen to the older generation talk about the now vanished stations at Lydd and new Romney. The next layout is gonna be a fictional layout based on the kent coast line with a branch that connects with the marsh link line. 
Back to the D class though they look amazing. And can’t come soon enough. 
 

big James 

What a lovely idea for a layout and I agree completely I cannot wait for the D Class either :D. My own layout was very loosely a sort of 'whatever I want' Ashford through the ages.  I will be dismantling my layout in the summer and probably putting my stock into store for a while before I can build a new layout at my new place.

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On 09/05/2021 at 20:24, wainwright1 said:

I have also collected a fair selection of SE & CR models for my Hawkhurst layout. I have two of the D class on order, full Wainwright and battleship grey. 

I would like to see Hornby do the H class in simplified Wainwright and battleship grey. There is also scope for the Hattons P class in simplified Wainwright.

I am doubtful about the Hattons 4 & 6 wheeled stock. I have already commented on their choice of livery and the pictures of the preproduction model released this week appear to show a shade of red even more leery than which they originally showed and not convincing. I would hope that they run them again in the dark red livery similar to to the Bachmann coaches.

 

All the best

Ray

To be honest the whole debate about colour has been gone into in detail on the other relevant topic. To my simple mind it comes down to which out of the Bluebell or K&ESR have got their interpretations of dark lake correct. Bachmann went for Bluebell and Hattons went for K&ESR. As a K&ESR member and previously a volunteer I was personally delighted Hattons went for 'K&ESR SE&CR dark lake' but I appreciate others may disagree on that.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Venator said:

To be honest the whole debate about colour has been gone into in detail on the other relevant topic. To my simple mind it comes down to which out of the Bluebell or K&ESR have got their interpretations of dark lake correct. Bachmann went for Bluebell and Hattons went for K&ESR. As a K&ESR member and previously a volunteer I was personally delighted Hattons went for 'K&ESR SE&CR dark lake' but I appreciate others may disagree on that.

 

Not wanting to stray to far from topic... But in regards to carriage colours... Bluebells purple or dark lake is based on what was found during strip down which is why many say they have it right. 

It was found on both the 4 wheelers they have... Here's a photo from their website. 

 

 http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/cw_news/cwn-pic2/3360/livery_davec4593_9mar10h.jpg

Edited by Bluebell Model Railway
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40 minutes ago, Bluebell Model Railway said:

 

Not wanting to stray to far from topic... But in regards to carriage colours... Bluebells purple or dark lake is based on what was found during strip down which is why many say they have it right. 

It was found on both the 4 wheelers they have... Here's a photo from their website. 

 

 http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/cw_news/cwn-pic2/3360/livery_davec4593_9mar10h.jpg

 

That has been mentioned before - yet  if we go with that as being gospel as regards ALL the 4 / 6 wheelers were in purple then it means the KESR are basically making things up with respect to their 4 wheelers, an attitude which doesn't sit right with that railway in general.

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Posted (edited)

Several of the coach liveries can be correct at different times, on all varieties of stock. First reddish lake (called crimson in the specifications issued to the contractors). Then a browner/bluer, cheaper version of the lake from c.1910. Then purple-brown undercoat with no lake layers, from maybe 1916. (But check that, don't trust my memory). Bachmann and the Blubell's colour is possibly the 1910-1916 shade. Note that Bachmann's 60-foot stock represents coaches built after the original lake was changed to the cheap lake.

Edited by Guy Rixon
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

Several of the coach liveries can be correct at different times, on all varieties of stock. First reddish lake (called crimson in the specifications issued to the contractors). Then a browner/bluer, cheaper version of the lake from c.1910. Then purple-brown undercoat with no lake layers, from maybe 1916. (But check that, don't trust my memory). Bachmann and the Blubell's colour is possibly the 1910-1916 shade. Note that Bachmann's 60-foot stock represents coaches built after the original lake was changed to the cheap lake.

The Bachmann/Bluebell darker colour was in use from about 1900 to 1910, a continuation of the SER one. The lighter crimson Hattons/K&ESR would have been applied to a limited number of coaches, probably new or front line only, noted from one reference from around 1910 to 1916 and not likely to have appeared on 6 wheelers and definitely not on 4 wheelers. The darker Wellington Brown style livery in use from 1916 to 1923. Of course there would also have been overlaps as the companies would not have been in a rush to repaint coaches especially older ones and re-varnishing would have been the normal treatment rather than repainting creating variations in the shades.

That Hattons pre-production sample seen last week looked even more orangey than the original artwork that they issued and in my opinion far too light in colour..

 

All the best

Ray

Edited by wainwright1
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Posted (edited)

Ray, your description and Guy's seem diametrically opposed. I am genuinely confused! Would you mind walking us through the evidence for your account of the livery changes (I am familiar with the basis of Guy's account)?

 

It can't be as vexed as the questions surrounding GWR red wagon livery; it can't, IT JUST CAN'T!!!! :crazy:

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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3 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

The Bachmann/Bluebell darker colour was in use from about 1900 to 1910, a continuation of the SER one. The lighter crimson Hattons/K&ESR would have been applied to a limited number of coaches, probably new or front line only, noted from one reference from around 1910 to 1916 and not likely to have appeared on 6 wheelers and definitely not on 4 wheelers. The darker Wellington Brown style livery in use from 1916 to 1923. Of course there would also have been overlaps as the companies would not have been in a rush to repaint coaches especially older ones and re-varnishing would have been the normal treatment rather than repainting creating variations in the shades.

That Hattons pre-production sample seen last week looked even more orangey than the original artwork that they issued and in my opinion far too light in colour..

 

All the best

Ray

 

This makes it sound like that Bachmann and Hattons have got it the wrong way around. This means those Hattons 4/6 wheelers should be in Dark Lake, while the crimson one should appear on the Bachmann Birdcages which - being the 60ft type - appeared a good number of years after 1910.

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39 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

This makes it sound like that Bachmann and Hattons have got it the wrong way around. This means those Hattons 4/6 wheelers should be in Dark Lake, while the crimson one should appear on the Bachmann Birdcages which - being the 60ft type - appeared a good number of years after 1910.

 

1912, IIRC

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59 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

This makes it sound like that Bachmann and Hattons have got it the wrong way around. This means those Hattons 4/6 wheelers should be in Dark Lake, while the crimson one should appear on the Bachmann Birdcages which - being the 60ft type - appeared a good number of years after 1910.

But there is an opportunity for Bachmann to do another run.

Ray

 

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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Ray, your description and Guy's seem diametrically opposed. I am genuinely confused! Would you mind walking us through the evidence for your account of the livery changes (I am familiar with the basis of Guy's account)?

 

It can't be as vexed as the questions surrounding GWR red wagon livery; it can't, IT JUST CAN'T!!!! :crazy:

 

 

 

I have already done that on the Hornby blog and copied it over onto the Hattons one.

I think that I can recall that the instructions for several etched brass kit coach makers, maybe Roxey/Branchlines, unfortunately I do not have copies to hand, and presumably advised by SECSoc,, that the original Dark Crimson was changed early in the WW1 period by removing the blue element thus making it redder and possibly slightly brighter as already relayed, which would be a reversal of Guys suggestion. The issue of undercoats obviously adds a whole new dimension and could create a variety of shades.

Anyway, it appears to be too late for Hattons to correct this now unless they do another run.

Ray

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2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

I have already done that on the Hornby blog and copied it over onto the Hattons one.

I think that I can recall that the instructions for several etched brass kit coach makers, maybe Roxey/Branchlines, unfortunately I do not have copies to hand, and presumably advised by SECSoc,, that the original Dark Crimson was changed early in the WW1 period by removing the blue element thus making it redder and possibly slightly brighter as already relayed, which would be a reversal of Guys suggestion. The issue of undercoats obviously adds a whole new dimension and could create a variety of shades.

Anyway, it appears to be too late for Hattons to correct this now unless they do another run.

Ray

Removing the "blue element" in 1916 is removing the lake coats and showing just the undercoat, possibly with clear varnish, possibly with nothing on top. That is a different change from the one in 1910, I believe.

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Though the discussion of carriage colours is largely irrelevant on a different manufacturer's locomotive thread, I can't help but stick my oar in and say I'd be happy whatever generic shade of red those generic coaches are going to be ................... the fact is they're not going to be right !

 

Now, i wonder if my soldering iron's hot yet ...........

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We are pleased to release footage showcasing sound fitted Wainwright D class locomotives!

 

Final production samples of all seven versions of the South Eastern & Chatham Railway D Class 4-4-0 from the Dapol production line have been received. These have now completed extensive running trials and final checking. The models are currently on the sea and expected end May / early June!

 

  • 4S-027-001 SECR Green No.488 £199.99
  • 4S-027-002 Southern Lined Maunsell Olive Green No.1730 £199.99
  • 4S-027-003 BR Sunshine Black No.31731 £189.99
  • 4S-027-004 BR Lined Black Early Crest No.31574 £199.99
  • 4S-027-005 SECR Grey (Scraped Beading) No.726 £189.99
  • 4S-027-006 Southern Sunshine No.1734 £189.99

 

The orders books are almost full on several versions so PRE-ORDER NOW

 

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Posted (edited)

I have a SECR green Class D w/sound on order from Rails and rake of Genesis carriages on order from Hattons. 

 

I am thrilled with the way the Class D model looks. The sounds are great (love the whistles) except for the exhaust "chuff." It sounds very much like white noise static rather than a defined sound. Maybe that is more an artifact of the mic used for the video and not how the locomotive sounds IRL?

 

According to the Rails site there is a sugar cube speaker in the locomotive and a bass reflex speaker in the tender. With that, I would expect some more definition and heft to the exhaust. 

 

If the video is accurate, here's hoping Rails finds a way to improve the chuff. But even better, let's hope the issue is that the video doesn't do it justice they way it is. 

 

Rob

Edited by Robert John Davis
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