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Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class


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I hope the group won’t mind my input but I got mine this morning so thought I’d post a pic.  I haven’t managed to put her on track but from my (admittedly poor) eyes there doesn’t seem to be an issue with the tender or the number.

3BBBD9E4-543D-4040-8621-8D1084840214.jpeg

1CEC1DA4-D9B3-4514-A668-78377D90A2D1.jpeg

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On 17/06/2021 at 17:31, CF MRC said:

We’ll soon be debating how many angels can you balance on a pin…

Pah! Balancing them’s nothing, it’s getting the little b*****s to dance that’s the trick!

 

19 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Or was Ashford that much better than Doncaster and Horwich?

Men of Kent. So better’s a given! :good:

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Well mine has arrived today, and what can I say, it's absolutely, sort of OK I guess. The loco on a whole is a very nice loco, probably more credit to Harry Wainwright and Co rather than Dapol to be fair. It has some points that I am sure you will tell me I am nitpicking (I am, because I have spent £200 on this so I can), could have chosen not to buy it (True, but since I cannot see the finished model up close like this without buying it that kind of a moot point, plus you could choose not to read this post if you don't want to read my nitpicking), or I could always built the SE Finecast kit if I prefer (I am, I'm part of the way through it, but will soon be giving it a new chassis with working inside valve gear, shameless plug for my YouTube if you want to see me do it live, once I have a few other projects out the way). So with those bits out the way can we get on with looking at the loco?

 

So as I said, the loco in general, and on it's own, as in without other companies SE&CR Wainwright liveried locos around it is very nice however, when you start to get other locos out next to it, or start to look a bit closer than a passing glance, it starts to show it's issues.

 

The first thing that stands out to me is the splasher crest, it looked a bit "plain" especially next to my Hattons P and Hornby H that I sat next to it, so I decided to take a closer look, and instantly saw the issue. This is the D Class crest:

838052378_2021-06-1816_02_53.jpg.755fe0267fab52d77851fb454b9a9b7c.jpg

 

This is the Hattons P Class crest, which not only cost half the price, but is smaller than the crest on the D Class, I would say roughly 80% of the size:

162622778_2021-06-1816_05_21.jpg.307d5a3b6307ab865fd683ab901a9292.jpg

 

Even the Hornby one looks better!

189032157_2021-06-1816_06_11.jpg.750bde3e31a30024eca79cf60f2d46a7.jpg

 

You'll notice that out of all 3 the only one that is illegible is the D Class, it is also the only one with lots of missing colours, and considering both the Hornby and Hattons models we significantly cheaper than this one, it's not a great start is it?

 

If you now go backward to my picture of the D Class again, look at the lining on the top of the splasher, it's not great either is it?

 

As I say, not overly obvious at first, but as soon as it was next to the other locos I noticed it, I think the white missing is the biggest giveaway from a distance. Interestingly, all 3 locos despite being from different manufacturers have almost identical base coat greens. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all agree on SE&CR carriage livery like that?

 

The tender footplate height, yes mine is off, though it seems like it is by less than others, and isn't immediately obvious from normal viewing distance, so I think I will be living with it, quite happily, rather than trying to fix it, although this photo does show some over printing of the valance lining onto the steps, again not obvious from normal viewing distance, and I will not be "fixing" it (I would make it worse, I assure you)

1527490649_2021-06-1816_09_43.jpg.d2ffa7fe59ed08781383b20828a5fb79.jpg

 

Having had a quick look out of curiosities sake with my larger lights shining straight on the side of the loco, it appears the loco body is slightly nose down, if you compare the footplate to the con rod:

1022452249_2021-06-1817_07_39.jpg.639330d7fa1df80f1b468d757d4415c9.jpg

 

And as for the number on the cab sides, I think mine might be drunk, because it clearly has no idea where it is supposed to be!!

2074298811_2021-06-1817_08_49.jpg.52700a0343c9a615df79a8cd92c59379.jpg

 

and for that matter is all boated so that it is a larger size than SE&CR numbers, hopefully these won't be too hard to remove and replace with etched numbers from Roxey.

 

So that is my two pence worth on the loco having only had it a few hours.

 

In conclusion,

 

Do I like it: Yes

Would I spend £200 on it again: Not as it is
Would I spend more than £200 if it was right: Yes

 

Now I'm rather excited to get it running and have a proper play!!

 

Gary

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14 hours ago, truffy said:

I’m going with the more commonly accepted definition of being born to the east of the Medway. The best of the best. 

My "Agree" refers to the commonly accepted definition.  As to which side is best, I'm differently biased, coming from so far north-west in the county that some idiots subsumed it into "Greater" London just before I arrived...  A town formerly well-known to @Oldddudders I believe, as the location of South Eastern Division HQ...

 

But to get back on topic, whilst I agree with the detailed comments about the model (in particular the slightly wonky numbers), having had my model of 488 for a few days I'm still very happy with it.  I can only really see the number issue if I look really closely at the model when it's stationary.  I've managed to improve the alignment of the tender and body valences slightly by reseating the loco body (the chassis hadn't fitted into the body quite correctly) - it's not absolutely in line, but better than it was, and better than some of the pictures shown in this thread... 

Edited by 3rd Rail Exile
on-topic addition.
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Ok, I give in. The "between the Stour and the sea" definition is a less-common one, I admit. I do recall Beckenham - was very happy in my job there for three years. And when Divisions became unfashionable in 1984, I was - implausibly - plucked to cover a Waterloo post planning Southern infrastructure. A lot of RMwebbers would have enjoyed that, too!

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It looks as if the middle ‘8’ on the RHS is not printed centrally and gives the impression of the number being

at a slight angle ?

hate to say it, and maybe a little unfair until the other versions arrive, but it’s not looking good !

In addition to the reported issues with the SE&CR I’ve had confirmation from Dapol that the RH tender crest

is the wrong way round on the BR version. 

The Southern olive green has the wrong number 3 and I believe the Southern Sunshine black also has is issues 

with oversize lettering.

I have to criticise as these models are not cheap and yet the mistakes are largely simple errors !

we deserve better.

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25 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

It looks as if the middle ‘8’ on the RHS is not printed centrally and gives the impression of the number being

at a slight angle ?

 

I think it's too far over, too high and at an angle, and it is really noticeable in real life, not just the photo.

 

I agree with giving criticism where it is due, especially when they are things we see right all the time from other sources.

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3 hours ago, truffy said:

Pah! Balancing them’s nothing, it’s getting the little b*****s to dance that’s the trick!

 

Men of Kent. So better’s a given! :good:

As a born and bred man of Kent I agree. Personally I think we should fortify the Medway to keep out those Kentish men and encroaching Londoners! 

 

My 488 has been delivered back to base in ashford, was found thrown over the fence. So hopefully it works when I get a chance to test it in a few weeks.

 

It's somewhat ironic that Ashford works was known for high quality workmanship and sadly it does appear Dapol haven't quite matched that in their model. I usually try to defend manufacturers and I will be better qualified to judge when I see the model for myself, but a £200 model should not have wonky numbers or a height difference between loco and tender.

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2 hours ago, Eddie the dog said:

It looks as if the middle ‘8’ on the RHS is not printed centrally and gives the impression of the number being

at a slight angle ?

hate to say it, and maybe a little unfair until the other versions arrive, but it’s not looking good !

In addition to the reported issues with the SE&CR I’ve had confirmation from Dapol that the RH tender crest

is the wrong way round on the BR version. 

The Southern olive green has the wrong number 3 and I believe the Southern Sunshine black also has is issues 

with oversize lettering.

I have to criticise as these models are not cheap and yet the mistakes are largely simple errors !

we deserve better.

 

Have Rails made any comment about livery errors? I'd be furious if I were them...

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7 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

 

Have Rails made any comment about livery errors? I'd be furious if I were them...


You don’t wash your dirty linen in public! (So the saying goes).

 

I imagine that if sufficient people ‘complain’ about the livery then Rails will be discussing them with Dapol behind the scenes.

 

What Rails won’t do is come out an admit to there being issues with this batch  - and in fairness when you have pretty much sold out of them why would you?

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Looking at the various photos of the d-class, the real locos have rather prominent guard irons at the front. Check in the handbook that comes with the loco - yes, there are supposed to be optional guard irons for the owner to fit if required, and there's a diagram showing you how to do it. Looking in the accessory pack - are there any guard irons ? Nope. To me, particularly for people who intend to display the model as opposed to run it, this is a big clanger.

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2 minutes ago, WisTramwayMan said:

Looking at the various photos of the d-class, the real locos have rather prominent guard irons at the front. Check in the handbook that comes with the loco - yes, there are supposed to be optional guard irons for the owner to fit if required, and there's a diagram showing you how to do it. Looking in the accessory pack - are there any guard irons ? Nope. To me, particularly for people who intend to display the model as opposed to run it, this is a big clanger.

 

For me, they were in with the spare wheels set. Have you checked that bag?

 

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6 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

For me, they were in with the spare wheels set. Have you checked that bag?

 

I put my hand up and admit it - I have now, and yes they were. Actually looked quickly earlier, couldn't see them, they were mixed up with the spokes. But why in that bag ? - I'd have thought it much more logical they were in with the other detailing parts, not the alternative wheelset. Still, they're there.

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3 hours ago, 34069 said:

Anyone seen a BR version yet? 

Had a call this afternoon. They are still dealing with the Wainwright liveried ones and dispatching that one to me, but not the SE & CR grey one yet. I think that they are releasing them in chronological order.

 

All the best

Ray 

Edited by wainwright1
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Just watched the review on Sam’s Trains and his results varied! After removing the traction tyres it struggled with 4 cars although the pulling power should translate to 12 cars on a flat and 31 with the traction tyres—somewhat disappointing if that holds up with other reviews. Good thing my modules are dead flat!

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2 hours ago, Eddie the dog said:

I’ve got three of these on order and would’ve preferred all to be sent at the same time ideally.

Cuts down on postage and easier to sneak past the wife !  

Lol

 

 

 

Presumably you could wait till all 3 are ready and then pay? Or are they taking payment automatically?

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On 18/06/2021 at 18:30, BlueLightning said:

Well mine has arrived today, and what can I say, it's absolutely, sort of OK I guess. The loco on a whole is a very nice loco, probably more credit to Harry Wainwright and Co rather than Dapol to be fair. It has some points that I am sure you will tell me I am nitpicking (I am, because I have spent £200 on this so I can), could have chosen not to buy it (True, but since I cannot see the finished model up close like this without buying it that kind of a moot point, plus you could choose not to read this post if you don't want to read my nitpicking), or I could always built the SE Finecast kit if I prefer (I am, I'm part of the way through it, but will soon be giving it a new chassis with working inside valve gear, shameless plug for my YouTube if you want to see me do it live, once I have a few other projects out the way). So with those bits out the way can we get on with looking at the loco?

 

So as I said, the loco in general, and on it's own, as in without other companies SE&CR Wainwright liveried locos around it is very nice however, when you start to get other locos out next to it, or start to look a bit closer than a passing glance, it starts to show it's issues.

 

The first thing that stands out to me is the splasher crest, it looked a bit "plain" especially next to my Hattons P and Hornby H that I sat next to it, so I decided to take a closer look, and instantly saw the issue. This is the D Class crest:

838052378_2021-06-1816_02_53.jpg.755fe0267fab52d77851fb454b9a9b7c.jpg

 

This is the Hattons P Class crest, which not only cost half the price, but is smaller than the crest on the D Class, I would say roughly 80% of the size:

162622778_2021-06-1816_05_21.jpg.307d5a3b6307ab865fd683ab901a9292.jpg

 

Even the Hornby one looks better!

189032157_2021-06-1816_06_11.jpg.750bde3e31a30024eca79cf60f2d46a7.jpg

 

You'll notice that out of all 3 the only one that is illegible is the D Class, it is also the only one with lots of missing colours, and considering both the Hornby and Hattons models we significantly cheaper than this one, it's not a great start is it?

If you now go backward to my picture of the D Class again, look at the lining on the top of the splasher, it's not great either is it?

 

Gary

 

With respect Gary, what a nonsense point on the crests.  

 

Each of the examples you give are representations of the real thing, Each differ. You present three different takes on the crest. Each is different, yet each is reasonable. You single out the D's, yet, if one wanted to be picky, one could criticise the other two as having missing colours and overall too much white. I'm not, by the way, and I don't.

 

Truth be told, there will be differences in the result when attempting to reproduce something of such complexity because it cannot be done at dead scale as elements of it are just too small.

 

Just like the lining. No one could produce Wainwright lining at scale and, if they could, you wouldn't be able to see half of it. 

 

The best a manufacturer can hope for is the best overall impression. Given the parameters of legitimate representation, you have to hope that your combination of coloured lines blends in the viewer's eye to something that looks like Wainwright lining.  This inevitably leads to differing results.  When I last placed RTR locos in this livery together, I found that each manufacturer's lining appeared different. In some, the pale green predominated, or looked at the bluer end of the spectrum; Bachmann's C was the outlier. with the overall impression distinctly quite far off to the yellow end of the range.

 

We see something similar with the crests.  

 

364396885_IMG_0049-Copy-Copy.JPG.e06176a12542d8de18806f1d16428d3a.JPG

 

DSCN8602.JPG.413d46ac5fe6ea5a619a9133b210f783.JPG

 

There are always some issues worth pointing out, concerns expressing - I'm rather more with you and others on the number slant issue, for instance, but other points strike me as mere scab-picking, I'm afraid.

 

838052378_2021-06-1816_02_53.jpg.755fe0267fab52d77851fb454b9a9b7c.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
misbehaving pictures
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8 hours ago, Eddie the dog said:

No idea, not had notification about 488 yet.

I did raise the question when I ordered, but believe that they were due at the same time back then.

 

Ah I see, your post made it sound like you'd already paid and had your first dispatched, I'm sure there are options for those who've ordered multiple, I'm waiting on the Southern pair 

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