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Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class


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Luckily I have zero Dapol models in my collection. I doubt very much if that ever will change.

 

Every model issued always to seem to have a catalogue of various problems, or in extreme cases  just simply look naff e.g the god awful old wagons "1980's"  mouldings they still try and sell.

 

Unless Rails etc, stop using Dapol for commisions, nothing will change , at that point they might then realise they need to up their game.

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30 minutes ago, micklner said:

Unless Rails etc, stop using Dapol for commissions, 

 

It is noteworthy in this respect the Rails' latest pre-Grouping commission, the LNWR Precedent, is with Bachmann, as indeed is the Caledonian 812, whilst the NER petrol-electric railcar was with Heljan. So they've been spreading their bets.

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51 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I never doubted that

 

 

The point is what exactly did you expect to happen? Rails to turn a modest profit into a big loss by going and correcting all the livery errors* out of their own pocket or to ruin their relationship by turning to the legal profession to force action.

 

Any sane analysis would point to neither being a likely course of action  - yet you sounded incredulous that nothing would be done.

 

Yes a complaint was definitely worth making - but equally threatening not to buy Rail / Dapol products will make sods all difference in an environment where outright duplication is avoided is not going to trouble either party particularly when the model concerned is pretty much a sell out on pre-orders.

 

* Don't forget about the wrong font on the SR types

 

 

Despite all the fluffy PR to try and tell you otherwise, business exist to make cash for their owners. Keeping customers happy is a nice to have, but not essential if you can keep the cash rolling in because the product you sell is unique** or regarded as essential (as many banks,  Insurance and Utility companies have proved for years).  Its also a fact that the grater the imbalance between the size of the two organisations then its also  less likely it is a complaint by the smaller party will result in action (unless it risks becoming a big media issue or they get hauled before the small claims court).

 

Not saying its right - but its how the world works. The model railway world is no different - If Dapol have turned around and said to themselves "stuff the complaints we will just ride this one out" then thats what they will do and no action short of Rails dragging Dapol through the courts is going to change things.

 

** Note what I said earlier about duplication being distantly unprofitable in RTR

 

 

The critical thing is Dapols response.

 

Had Dapol turned round to Footplate Models and effectively said 'get lost' then no amount of complaining would have got any extra Salmon bodies would it! Footplate models would have then been faced with making a loss on the project getting replacement bodies made or alternatively having people like you telling us how crap they are.

 

The reality in the Footplate models case is either that Dapol realised the error was too significant  from a contractual / legal to be swept under the carpet or alternatively it may be a better business decision to take a hit because of the potential longer term revenues which could be gained from the Footplate Models partnership.

 

This is not unusual - just think how many companies offer great insurance or utility deals in year 1 but then want to milk you like a cash cow for subsequent years. Taking a hit profit wise in year 1 has produced substernal  dividends in years 2, 3, 4, etc. 

 

With the D class, Dapol have evidently decided they have nothing to lose finically by ignoring complaints  - and any rectification will have to be paid for by Rails. In such a situation its not surprising Rails are not going to spend their own cash fixing other peoples mistakes.

 

I'm not surprised that Rails are not prepared to spend money to rectify the error, however they are the only conduit in which to make a complaint, which I believe is quite justified. The reason I've decided not to pre order in future, is that Rails charge a £30 non refundable deposit on their loco commissions, so if someone changes their mind, even due to the model having quality issues, they lose their deposit. I don't think it's unreasonable to say I'd rather wait for the model to hit the market before deciding to buy. In view of the recent experience and, due to the risk of losing the deposit, I will wait. I fully realise I risk the model not being available, but most are.

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I believe myself to be fairly generous to manufacturers, I stood up for the Hornby 4VEP when it was taking a hammering from people on this forum for having a corridor a few mm out of scale. Here I echo some of the disappointment regarding some rather sloppy and avoidable errors, at £200 a loco one does expect liveries to be correct.

 

I suppose the thing we have to always bear in mind is that nobody is forcing you to buy the model. Quite simply if it doesn't meet your standards don't buy it and build your own. However, despite the niggles, I am delighted the SE&CR D is available in RTR form, and because I cant hope to build kits for myself (lack of skill and time) I have accepted these minor issues.

 

At a time when some manufacturers (Hornby) are becoming less and less adventurous and just retooling the same old celebrity 'big' locos Rails and Dapol should be commended for doing the D. I hope perhaps they might consider doing an E, especially if the bluebell project to build one advances.

Edited by Venator
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17 hours ago, No Decorum said:

 It happened that I was sent a non-sound model by mistake – has the box a sticker on the end?

“TESTED: RC

SOUND FITTED:03” 

Thanks.  That makes sense.

There is a sticker that says 'DCC & Sound Fitted', but not

"TESTED: RC

SOUND FITTED:03"

I shall check with Locomotion...

 

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17 minutes ago, KymN said:

Thanks.  That makes sense.

There is a sticker that says 'DCC & Sound Fitted', but not

"TESTED: RC

SOUND FITTED:03"

I shall check with Locomotion...

 

I have missed something.  Before I tried checking with Locomotion it occurred to me to try the loco on DC.  It ran, with sound.  So it is sound fitted.  Then I retried it on DCC.  Still quiet.  But because No Decorum had some noise by pressing several function keys, I tried F1.  And the sound came on!!! :good_mini: I don't remember seeing that in the instructions, but it does work, and turns it off again.  So I do have a DCC sound fitted model after all.  I'm not sure whether it is me or the chip in charge - I suspect it isn't me, but I'll call that progress.

Thanks again to No Decorum.

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12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I'm afraid that livery issues seem to be par-for-the-course with Dapol - 'near enough is good enough' seems to be their motto!

 

CJI.

 

This attitude also applied to things like the faulty PCB design and dodgy livery colours on their first batch of class 73s.

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I have yet to receive any of my three, but paid the deposit for each loco for what I assumed

to be a high spec model.

Livery issues aside, I am disappointed more that the materials used, I.e. plastic instead of die cast has

been used for the boiler and yet Rails to the best of my knowledge chose not to advise anyone or

pass on any saving. 

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6 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

I have yet to receive any of my three, but paid the deposit for each loco for what I assumed

to be a high spec model.

Livery issues aside, I am disappointed more that the materials used, I.e. plastic instead of die cast has

been used for the boiler and yet Rails to the best of my knowledge chose not to advise anyone or

pass on any saving. 

 

The initial announcement didn't mention any diecast , although the initial pics seemed to show metal boiler . At least you've got a 5 pole motor

Edited by Legend
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6 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

 

Livery issues aside, I am disappointed more that the materials used, I.e. plastic instead of die cast has

been used for the boiler and yet Rails to the best of my knowledge chose not to advise anyone or

pass on any saving. 

 

The boiler on mine is diecast up to the smokebox but because it has to allow for the motor and dcc board it is thin.

 

Also you can't add too much weight forward of the drivers or it'll upset the balance over the driving wheels. 

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Just had my early crest BR one delivered, it seems to have the mandatory rear buffer loose in the box and cab roof detach as its unpacked ! Looks a nice model though, shame about the  Lion but when I discovered a picture on my local line (in younger days) of one then I had to succumb !! Maybe those with errors that stay like that will become collectors items, like faulty stamps are in the future. However mine will look good running with a birdcage set as prototypical, but that will have to wait a little while due to layout updating.

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Has anyone successfully managed to remove the body and get it back on? 

 

I removed mine to attach the detailing (less fiddly then, I find), but I can't get the body back on and the DCC blanking plate is being a real pain in the proverbial. 

 

The socket itself sits in its own pocket in front of the motor, but then is too long to slide into the boiler. If I don't do that, then the wires get too bulky around the motor to slide in. I've been leaving the blanking plate off altogether, it's just ridiculous how you'll get it sat in the rails in the smokebox only for the too-short wiring loom to tank it back out again when you come to position the chassis for pushing home. 

 

I'm exhausted with this model. When I tried reassembling it the first time, the glue was so weak the cab interior and roof fell off. 

 

What do I do? The manual is useless. 

 

EDIT: I'd been trying to do the bloody thing for two hours, then on the fluke of a different angle, the damn thing clicked together. Suffice to say, I won't be dismantling this model again anytime soon if I can help it. 

Edited by AVS1998
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Alex, if the cab interior has come out it will be easier to refit the chassis first, then refit the cab interior. You have more room to manoeuvre the chassis.

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On 12/07/2021 at 13:37, Edwardian said:

 

 

IIRC, the grey livery model was based on a picture taken in 1921.

 

Query whether the crew were as likely to have stripped back the brass beading during wartime.

 

EDIT: Said photograph, and it's October 1920

 

807886491_726atLonghedge16Oct-20Survey.JPG.e1a17e94711f1f369493cc180cc67bf0.JPG

Thanks for your help Edwardian, that's a great help.

The loco looks to be in really good condition considering it's a couple of years or there just about after the 1st world War.

Edited by Steam here!
Missed out some words.
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  • 2 weeks later...
 

I believe myself to be fairly generous to manufacturers, I stood up for the Hornby 4VEP when it was taking a hammering from people on this forum for having a corridor a few mm out of scale. Here I echo some of the disappointment regarding some rather sloppy and avoidable errors, at £200 a loco one does expect liveries to be correct.

 

I suppose the thing we have to always bear in mind is that nobody is forcing you to buy the model. Quite simply if it doesn't meet your standards don't buy it and build your own. However, despite the niggles, I am delighted the SE&CR D is available in RTR form, and because I cant hope to build kits for myself (lack of skill and time) I have accepted these minor issues.

 

At a time when some manufacturers (Hornby) are becoming less and less adventurous and just retooling the same old celebrity 'big' locos Rails and Dapol should be commended for doing the D. I hope perhaps they might consider doing an E, especially if the bluebell project to build one advances.

 

At the end of the day, prices have shot up due to wage increases in China. But the processes that produce these models have little changed.

My Bachmann SECR C class from the first run cost me less than £70, the latest run isn't far short of this D class and the quality between the 2 is marginal though somewhat in the D class favour.

 

Had I built it myself, it would have been a huge challenge to match this quality. And I certainly would not have built 4 of them that I brought!

 

They all arrived with at least one buffer off, not really a niggle and easily refitted. 

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And here are all my Ds togethor:

 

D_class3.jpg.9d8b3292d1ced00c1746df5974e721f1.jpg

 

D_class4.jpg.7b3c3b23dc688832b66788f178aaab32.jpg

 

An SECR Wainwright D with other Wainwright locos....

 

D_class5.jpg.a79e0d424d24cde6c89dbd6da00c7059.jpg

 

And finally a BR D with other ex SECR BR locos:

 

D_class6.jpg.7c45c1b6efdb3712203205f86db94300.jpg

 

 

 

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On 13/07/2021 at 18:54, rembrow said:

I'm not surprised that Rails are not prepared to spend money to rectify the error, however they are the only conduit in which to make a complaint, which I believe is quite justified. The reason I've decided not to pre order in future, is that Rails charge a £30 non refundable deposit on their loco commissions, so if someone changes their mind, even due to the model having quality issues, they lose their deposit. I don't think it's unreasonable to say I'd rather wait for the model to hit the market before deciding to buy. In view of the recent experience and, due to the risk of losing the deposit, I will wait. I fully realise I risk the model not being available, but most are.

On earlier commission I had reason to cancel my order, but Rails did refund me by the way of a credit on my account. I think this is reasonable. The £30 credit was fairly quickly spent on something else!

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Finally my Dapol/Rails arrived in the Netherlands. But it was a very expensive experience. To speed up the livery after Brexit, I let send my railway stuff via a British friend. So also in this occasion. Indeed my loc is much, much faster in the NL, than similar D Class locos of my Dutch friends, still waiting…

But I paid VAT in the UK, and my British friend send it to me. The Dutch douane let me however pay again the Dutch equivalent of the VAT (€ 60,-). And it seems there’s no way to get it back, due to the Dutch and UK officials. :(spacer.png

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2 hours ago, jburgt said:

Finally my Dapol/Rails arrived in the Netherlands. But it was a very expensive experience. To speed up the livery after Brexit, I let send my railway stuff via a British friend. So also in this occasion. Indeed my loc is much, much faster in the NL, than similar D Class locos of my Dutch friends, still waiting…

But I paid VAT in the UK, and my British friend send it to me. The Dutch douane let me however pay again the Dutch equivalent of the VAT (€ 60,-). And it seems there’s no way to get it back, due to the Dutch and UK officials. :(spacer.png

 

I've had 4 arrived to me in France (see my post above yours), none had VAT added at the source. One via the NRM, sound fitted which came by UPS. This one got the VAT + admin added on my side.

The other 3 via Royal mail as 2 seperate parcels. None of of those got charged VAT nor admin charges on my side.

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Here is my BR lined example, arrived today in Western Australia. Already had the black paint out to tone down the silver brightwork, and altered that tender crest using a Fox transfer!

639354020_DSCN0161(2).JPG.ac8885de2ae3a8140cdaf285b9222129.JPG

 

982660620_DSCN0162(2).JPG.cf6d56c792b6a65ef05f69e25858ac1e.JPG

 

1219914533_DSCN0165(2).JPG.a794c5649fe84a817eb5e3d1e583d39a.JPG

 

Just running in on the rolling road at the moment, but the elegance of the design shows well even in black. Why was it transferred to Colwick though?

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yikes, be carful when handling your loco, all of this is from simply running the engine every now and then, its not like I'm throwing the model around or anything, kinda sad to see something like this on a 200 pound model, my Hornby H class has the same lining but doesn't have the same issue. It almost feels like I'm handling a modeling with waterslide transfers on it with no primer applied.

20210825_205930.jpg.bcba856156b8fc165e40ae8bdfd600bf.jpg

 

Edited by Als Yard
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3 hours ago, Als Yard said:

Yikes, be carful when handling your loco, all of this is from simply running the engine every now and then, its not like I'm throwing the model around or anything, kinda sad to see something like this on a 200 pound model, my Hornby H class has the same lining but doesn't have the same issue. It almost feels like I'm handling a modeling with waterslide transfers on it with no primer applied.

20210825_205930.jpg.bcba856156b8fc165e40ae8bdfd600bf.jpg

 

Have you contacted Rails? That should be returnable under normal trading law as defective for a replacement shell. 

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