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Locomotion & Rails of Sheffield announce SE&CR D Class


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5 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

 

While I happy for you and glad that people are getting a model which they are interested in...  J21/ NER C, alone, had a fleet total of 171... just saying... 

 

Nearly a thousand DX Goods built. Just saying.... ;)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNWR_DX_Goods_class

 

 

 

Jason

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2 minutes ago, Budgie said:

 

That argument won't work, or Electrostar EMUs would be widely available already.

 

A multi-car unit is expensive to make. Thats what stops Electrostar. J21 would be another engine that the market could support. 

But again, people have the D class - so they are happy. 

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32 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

 

While I happy for you and glad that people are getting a model which they are interested in...  J21/ NER C1, alone, had a fleet total of 201... just saying... 

 

Could not just be happy that Oxford Rail are doing a J27 perhaps?

 

Of course not.

 

Craig W

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True, even the LRM kit is for the Webb rebuild from the 1880s - the Special DX. Mind you, there were 500 of those - and it was, I think, from this group that the 88 that made it to the LMS came.

 

Speaking of Webb, there are several other very large classes that put any SECR or even NER numbers in the shade:

Coal Engine - 499

Cauliflower - 310

Coal Tank - 300 (done)

4'6" Tank - 220

Class B - 170

5'6" tank - 160

Improved Precedent - 158

Class A - 111

... all of which had good survival rates to the LMS apart from the 0-8-0s which were mostly rebuilt into bigger 0-8-0s.

 

But now I've strayed well off-topic and into the realms of fantasy wish-listing, although of course all these engines looked very handsome in full LNWR line livery, as did Surtees' D, eventually.

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5 hours ago, dibber25 said:

We were told it has been specifically done that way to ensure that the centre of mass IS in exactly the right place for maximum traction. (CJL)

OOOHH, that means a ringfield tender drive then...! Can't wait!:o:P

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C,

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Out of interest ...

 

A new or fairly new No. 488 in service, seen here c.1902-05 at Charing Cross, in all its glory; the condition that the model will represent ....

 

She was built at Ashford, as opposed to by an outside contractor, in August 1902 and allocated to Dover.   

 

507307115_488atCharingX1902-05.JPG.0dd88c698eeb5d81da03586e0244e07c.JPG

 

726 in wartime grey, but in a post-War view at Longhedge in 1920.     

 

W G Tilling observed in The locomotives of the Southern Railway (Eastern Section) how crews, rebelling against Maunsell's "strictly utilitarian turn of mind", would scrape the paint off the brass splasher beading and polish it up. This is what we see here and this is the condition the model will represent. 

 

You'll notice a few physical changes including the cast capuchon chimney, the removal of the upper smoke box lubricator and the tender now has raves added.  Maunsell seems to have been unable to see a smoke box without festooning it with snap-head rivets, and he's certainly been at work here!

 

380041126_726atLonghedge16Oct-20.JPG.7151b18c3f7020162e98cb1faac0f499.JPG

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There are a good number of 0-4-2 and 2-4-0 tender engines in the NRM collection which would make an excellent next subject. Especially considering that there are no such locos in RTR today. Granted that only a few got as far as BR but these locos have a real charm which make them a nice change. 

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8 hours ago, Edwardian said:

W G Tilling observed in The locomotives of the Southern Railway (Eastern Section) how crews, rebelling against Maunsell's "strictly utilitarian turn of mind", would scrape the paint off the brass splasher beading and polish it up. This is what we see here and this is the condition the model will represent. 

 

 

On the other hand, I recall Nock writing somewhere, re. the painted-over domes of Southern days: "I remember...", to which the driver broke in, saying "Yes, I remember them too, I had to clean the flicking things!"

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14 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Some grainy shots from my 'phone ....

 

1872800679_IMG_3560-Copy.JPG.5ad75c3dd3f8a5dfec2bd872c854a908.JPG

 

Tenders with raves and a view showing the cab with the four windows, as fitted to the last 11 of the class. 

 

IMG_3523.JPG.6c295a57644bfdb9d40787a57e186f22.JPG

 

Some of the cab detail glimpsed ...

 

IMG_3521.JPG.19219e09697cd90ea59c6a4f5db83082.JPG

 

 

 

Thanks for the photos. If my understanding is correct, only the BR 31574 will have the 4 window version of the cab. 

I would like to buy a few locos that will have detail differences from one loco to the next. I wonder if there is a list of these variants like what Hattons did with their P class.

Edited by JSpencer
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41 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

Thanks for the photos. If my understanding is correct, only the BR 31574 will have the 4 window version of the cab. 

I would like to a few buy locos that have detail differences from one loco to the next. I wonder if there is a list of these variants like what Hattons did with their P class.

 

Yes, so far the only confirmed release of the 4-window late series is 31574.

 

1171504942_31574atReigate.JPG.f1db5beb9e87af98d19e71c2960fa582.JPG

 

In terms of a list of variants, I suppose the simplest way to summarise this is that, as you know, there are two as-built variants and then a number of physical changes applied progressively to both. Some, of course, effectively exit the class for our purposes to become D1s.

 

So, you start with:

 

(a) The majority of the class (40, built 1901-1903) with a pair of round spectacles and a 3,300 gal/(4 1/2 ton tender

(b) The final Ashford series (11 built 1906-1907) with the 4 cab windows and a 3,450 gal/4 ton tender (which was the same as that built for the E Class)

 

Now both variants start in the fully lined Wainwright livery with "copper tops" and polished domes, then the simplified lined scheme is applied (in this case I judge from c. March 1911), etc, etc, with physical changes occurring as we progress.  The tooling suite should be able to accommodate both build variants throughout their lives.  Personally, I'd like to see a later series (4-window) in fully lined Wainwright livery and both variants in the simplified livery, but only time will tell! In the meantime I've got 488 to save up for.

 

The only odd ball was 247, with the extended smoke boxes, so if you want that one, you're on your own!

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15 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Some grainy shots from my 'phone ....

 

1872800679_IMG_3560-Copy.JPG.5ad75c3dd3f8a5dfec2bd872c854a908.JPG

 

Tenders with raves and a view showing the cab with the four windows, as fitted to the last 11 of the class. 

 

IMG_3523.JPG.6c295a57644bfdb9d40787a57e186f22.JPG

 

Thank God they've allowed for a four-window cab moulding for 31574 - it's the only one of the locos they've chosen that's from the 1906/7 batch ........ BUT - and there has to be a BUT - this loco was running with an 'E' class tender at the date of the oft-published colour photo in chosen livery : not a vast difference, but the running plate angle was noticeably shallower than that on the loco. [ BUT the photo above - which has been posted since I started writing this - shows the standard-depth running plate - so that's OK ..... except it's not on such a sparkling condition as in the colour photo ! ]

 

The other thing to comment on is the buffers : Most if not all of the 'D' class carried parallel buffers ( LCDR ? ) from new - as shown on all Rails' artwork and samples so far - BUT ( again, a BUT ) most of these had been replaced by taper type ( SER ? ) long before nationalisation and a few had received Maunsell stepped ones on the front as shown in the first Morant photo above. I think taper ones would be correct for all the locos currently proposed in post-grouping liveries ....... tender backsides rarely got photographed but it's a fair guess that rear buffers will match the front ones ( except for Maunsell type ).

 

Just a thought - Would it be possible to chamfer the edges of the steps so they look thinner than they are ?

Edited by Wickham Green
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10 hours ago, 45568 said:

OOOHH, that means a ringfield tender drive then...! Can't wait!:o:P

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C,

No, it certainly doesn't. We were told that the final adjustments to weighting etc will be made once an EP has been tested, which is normal practice. (CJL)

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2 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

Thank God they've allowed for a four-window cab moulding for 31574 - it's the only one of the locos they've chosen that's from the 1906/7 batch ........ BUT - and there has to be a BUT - this loco was running with an 'E' class tender at the date of the oft-published colour photo in chosen livery : not a vast difference, but the running plate angle was noticeably shallower than that on the loco.

 

The other thing to comment on is the buffers : Most if not all of the 'D' class carried parallel buffers ( LCDR ? ) from new - as shown on all Rails' artwork and samples so far - BUT ( again, a BUT ) most of these had been replaced by taper type ( SER ? ) long before nationalisation and a few had received Maunsell stepped ones on the front as shown in the first Morant photo above. I think taper ones would be correct for all the locos currently proposed in post-grouping liveries ....... tender backsides rarely got photographed but it's a fair guess that rear buffers will match the front ones ( except for Maunsell type ).

 

Just a thought - Would it be possible to chamfer the edges of the steps so they look thinner than they are ?

 

I think my post immediately before yours addresses the point about the tenders for 1906-1907 Ashford loco.

 

If you care to feed back detailed comments, with suitable evidence, I would encourage you to drop me a PM; I am more than happy to act as a conduit to help ensure any constructive criticism or information is passed on while it may still be of use!

 

3 minutes ago, truffy said:

It would be nice to have the four-windowed version in earlier (SR) guise, if only for a little variety.

 

But, as it is, my pre-order for SR1730 is now in!

 

There are plenty of things I'd like to see, There is no early SR A prefix example in the initial release list, for example.  But these can certainly all be done.   

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.

 

As ever, will the people wanting to talk about other engines, on other railways/regions stop spamming this thread, it is tedious.

 

You have your own threads, so why not post there ?

 

Manufacturers make their decisions on many factors, especially what they perceive will sell.  The best way to get more locos of any particular region made is to buy what is already available.  I PRESUME that the D1 was mainly announced was because the SECR livery is seen as very "pretty" and attracts buyers like moths to a flame.  ( Also the relative ease of producing a modified D1 relatively easily could have played a part.)   All anyone has to do is find another pre-grouping railway with an equally attractive livery, they are around.

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  • RMweb Gold

 

2 hours ago, mswjr said:

Agree, It is a lovely beast, I model gwr 1930s Cheltenham Malvern road, No chance it ever came near here, BUT I GOTTA HAVE ONE.

 

You've never heard of the Charing Cross - Cheltenham special then? :)

 

image.png.f09880bb738f5e8c32df85b1c1809146.png

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1730 in lined Maunsell olive green, of course represents the 1931 renumbering scheme.

 

The D's were still receiving lined olive green on the eve of the war, and they would not all have gone into 'sunshine' & black immediately.  So, those wanting to run a troop train early in the war should probably be looking at this release. I mention this because 1730 was noted with 14 LMS corridor coaches on Reading-Redhill line during Dunkirk Evacuation, 1940.  BTW, that's a a nice example of the Ds doing good work; a heavy train on a line significantly more steeply graded than the SE mainlines for which they were designed.  

 

Here is 1730 at Tonbridge in 1934:

 

2077464248_1730atTonbridge22Oct-34.JPG.001ce85275803f6ac893ce7156ff6877.JPG

 

588174279_1730atTonbridge22Oct-34.JPG.6ae06138a7846aa034487e6d04dcb186.JPG

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
Is it just me, or did the picture disappear?
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