Selecting formations for Sydney Gardens

[vonmarshall]

Hello all

 

I love to model full length trains that are prototypical in length and coach types used and most of my models are designed to run in the garden on a line I am building that represents the sea wall around Dawlish.

 

I focus on the express services that ran from Penzance / Plymouth through to Paddington but also the cross country services which went north to Crewe and carried a mix of LMS coaches.

 

Making heavy use of "Train Formations & Carriage Workings of the GWR" which details the 1931/32 timetable, I have embarked on creating quite a few prototypical formations, all of which would have been seen along the sea wall in the early 30's,

 

But I have just got clearance from my wife to build a decent sized shed which will act as a fiddle yard but also may have the space to have a long thin scenic area and I have always loved the vibe from Sydney Gardens.

 

And this is where I get confused. 

 

Looking at the current map (attached) showing the train lines from Swindon to Bristol, the 2 different routes are clearly shown and today, as in the 30's I assume, the route to the north of Bath is a bit faster. I am assuming therefore that the main express trains to Paddington and also the trains heading North to Crewe and beyond, all travelled upwards and not via Bath and Sydney Gardens. 

 

I am prepared to use some artistic licence and propose to running my trains on a day when the Northern line was undergoing work and all the trains were diverted via Bath, but if I could find something more concrete I would be delighted.

 

Is this 

 

If anybody can help or point me in the right direction to do more research I would appreciate it.

 

Many thanks

[Fat Controller]

I wouldn't rely on current timings, as there's been a lot of work done on both routes since the mid-1970s. I think you would have seen most Bristol- Paddington trains using the route via Bath, as there's a fairly fierce gradient from Temple Meads to Filton, which would have cost a few minutes. Also, the southern route has a couple of intermediate stations, serving fairly large towns, whilst the northern route only has Badminton.

LMS trains for the north-west would probably have gone via the Severn Tunnel and the Maindy curve at Newport, thence via Hereford and Shrewsbury. Other LMS workings, and possibly LNER through coaches, would have taken the Midland route from Bristol, via Mangotsfield to Gloucester thence Birmingham . The only LMS coaches via Bath Spa would probably have been workings to and from Weymouth.

[WillCav]

A lot of the Paddington - Penzance expresses would have bypassed Bristol altogether as they turned right just past Taunton and headed through Castle Cary and Newbury to re-join the main line at Reading West Junction.

Will

[The Johnster]

Sydney Gardens is on the original Bristol-Paddington GWML, and did not handle the West of England traffic by the 30s; this would have been routed via Westbury.  Similarly, it never saw the West of England cross country traffic to the north or north east via Hereford or Gloucester.  The passenger traffic in the 30s would have been the Bristol-Paddington expresses, the Cardiff-Weymouth via Westbury/Castle Cary and Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton via Salisbury services, along with Bristol-Salisbury and other local traffic. 

 

Parcels and mail trains Bristol-Paddington and Bristol-Southampton. Freight; through fitted, some general merchandise Salisbury traffic, up and down milk, and the Radyr-Salisbury coal hauled by a 72xx, plus local pickup. 

[Compound2632]

Surely there must have been some Paddington to points west of Bristol trains routed via Temple Meads? It would seem surprising if, say, Weston-S-M was without through trains to London. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

In GWR days, some of the routings could be quite surprising. There were, for instance, several trains running from Paddington - Bristol via Newbury and Devizes.

Certainly, as now, some West of England trains would have run via Bristol rather than via Westbury but I am not sure if that would be via Badminton or via Bath. I will take a quick look at the 1922 and 1938 Bradshaw reprints to see what I can find.

 

Edit: Just taken a quick look at July 1922. At least three trains from Paddington travelling beyond Bristol running via Bath. Also an interesting one running from Sheffield via Woodford Halse, Banbury and Bath to West Country resorts.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Joseph_Pestell
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[Joseph_Pestell]

And just taken a look at the 1938 Bradshaw which shows a very similar pattern. Train timings often remain the same for decades.

[vonmarshall]

Thanks all for your thoughts.

I do not have Bradshaw, it sounds like it may be worth tracking down.

Can you let me know what the Paddington trains are that took that route and I can compare to my 1931 Formations book to see what they were made up of.

 

[Coach bogie]

The Berks and Hants was not as well used as it could have been. From memory, the 15:15, or thereabouts was the last West country train to use the B&H, all others going via Bristol.

 

Mention was made of Weston. Many of the Paddington - Bristol trains continued on to Weston. In the up direction these train often arrived from Weston under local train lamp codes and switched to Express codes at Temple Meads.

 

There were oddities. The down Bristolian ran via Bath, but the up via Badminton.

 

As Johnster states, via Bath, you had the very busy Weymouth, Portsmouth and Brighton traffic, the last two alternated GWR and Southern stock. Some of these ran to Cardiff which bypassed Temple Meads altogether turning off at Dr Days, stopping at Stapleton  Road. This also applied to freight traffic for South Wales. For example there was a daily return Salisbury - Rogerstone freight, usually with a 72XX at the front, that would be seen running through Bath.

 

One gem is the Swindon-Bristol 'running in' train which would be held in the centre lines at Bath for faster trains to pass. Here is the excuse to run BIG engines on two and three coach trains. There are many published images of Kings, Castles , 47xx hauling just a B set.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Hal Nail]

The Bristolian travelled down via Bath but up via Badminton, including going up the bank mentioned earlier.

 

I read somewhere 7 collett coaches originally - restricted to allow the fast timings.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Hal Nail

[Coach bogie]

8 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

The Bristolian travelled down via Bath but up via Badminton, including going up the bank mentioned earlier.

 

I read somewhere 7 collett coaches originally - restricted to allow the fast timings.

Depends what day. If you see a picture with a King up front, it is a Friday. Heavier loads required a King one day a week.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

If you see a picture with a King up front, it is a Friday. Heavier loads required a King one day a week.

 

So what was that King doing for the rest of the week? Not standing pilot at Paddington, I assume. Or put it another way, what job needed a King Mon-Thu but could be managed by a Castle Fri?