Eastbury Yard (a modern era yard somewhere in the South West)

[P.C.M]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

Totally separate from the Point Motor Peter, they can go in / on the control panel, along the edge of the baseboard or under the board near a point. The thing you need to remember is that the point MUST be MODIFIED to enable the Frog to be dead.

The DCC80 has 3 solder terminals, two are marked ''R'' = Rails / Bus Bar / controller track feed etc, and can go any way around, it matters not. The third terminal is marked F, = Frog and that as it says, goes to the frog.

DO NOT BE CONFUSED by wiring it up and switching the point to find that the polarity HAS NOT CHANGED. It will change as a Loco passes over it, all as if by Magic and with no flickering of lights or sound.

A truly amazing gizmo IMHO, and far better than relying on the un reliable switch that fits on the Peco Motors or the Seep one that sometimes works or not depending on the day of the Month and the position of the Moon.

On Seven Mills Sidings, I have de wired all my Frogs from the Traintronic TT300 DCC Point Motors and connected the wires to DCC80's,

Arriving today will be some more, to be fitted on my new small Layout Cadley Hill, and I will be using them on any future Layouts that are DCC operated.

 

All the best.

Andy.

Thanks Andy, Thats very useful I will be buying some myself much easier to retro fit to points I already have on the layout rather than trying to fit under Peco point motors. Hardest bit will be cutting the rail to make the frog dead.

 

Thanks Cheers Peter.

[Andrew P]

4 hours ago, P.C.M said:

Thanks Andy, Thats very useful I will be buying some myself much easier to retro fit to points I already have on the layout rather than trying to fit under Peco point motors. Hardest bit will be cutting the rail to make the frog dead.

 

Thanks Cheers Peter.

For Scott and Peter and others.

 

 

 

[Andrew P]

And with a Loco sitting on the Frog, (Not a REAL Frog, obviously)

 

[wireman]

Hi Scott, I have 4 x DCC80 units on Brampton road if you want drop in and see them.

 

Cheers Brian.

 

[Alister_G]

5 hours ago, P.C.M said:

Thanks Andy, Thats very useful I will be buying some myself much easier to retro fit to points I already have on the layout rather than trying to fit under Peco point motors. Hardest bit will be cutting the rail to make the frog dead.

 

Thanks Cheers Peter.

 

Apologies to Scott, but be aware Peter that you will need to lift the points to cut the bridging wires underneath and make the frog seperate from the closure rails.

 

Al.

[pitbull1845]

Evening all,

 

Thanks Andy, for the information regarding the DCC80's, they do sound very useful.

Brian, I'll give you a shout soon to arrange a visit to view these in action and also to have a look at the layout change.

Hi Peter, and thanks for popping by with your words of encouragement, I think its the design stage and initial work on the layout that I seem to enjoy the most. But I do look forward to the day when I can sit back and watch the trains go by on my fully scenic layout. 

There has been no real progress on the layout, just painting the rail sides and other bits of niff naff and trivia..

Funding is the main issue at the moment, so I can only do the little jobs for the time being, plus lots of staring blankly at the boards trying to come up with scenic ideas and now, trying to shoe horn some additional scenic areas in and around the fiddle yard! 

[pitbull1845]

Hi.. 

I have purchased some gaugemaster DCC80 frog polarity switches. I've wired and fitted 3, but don't seem to be switching polarity. It's only 3 wires, what can I have possibly done wrong? I've modified the points as advised on many sites. Should I have left them unmodified? I hate electrics! 

Edited November 4, 2019 by pitbull1845

[pitbull1845]

Having done a search it would appear that the answer is possibly that my NCE Power cab isn't powerful enough. 

 

[Alister_G]

Hi Scott,

 

I'd be surprised if that's the problem, to be honest, I run an NCE Powercab and have no problem with the autofrog, and it's not like you've got a massive layout.

 

When you say they aren't working, have you tried running a loco over the points?

 

They don't work like a normal point motor switch, so they don't switch the frog when the point changes, only when they detect a short, so they only switch when something is actually on the track. If you just test them with a meter, they don't switch.

 

If you run a loco over the turnout you should be able to hear a click from the autofrog as the relay switches.

 

Cheers,

 

Al.

[pitbull1845]

Hi Alister, 

Thanks for that, I don't know what it is then. 

When I run a loco over the points they go one route no problem, but when I change the point for the other route they just stop on the frog. There is no clicking of any kind. 

 

[Alister_G]

You did cut the jumpers under the point, did you?

 

Sorry for such a basic question, but it's the obvious first step.

 

Al.

[pitbull1845]

yes cut the jumpers and did the other wiring  modification. 

 

 

[Alister_G]

And you've used insulated fishplates on the two inner rails of the diverging end of the point, and connected the track feeds to the two wires feeding the stock rails?

 

Sorry, just trying in my head to work out why they wouldn't work, they're normally dead easy.

 

This is the diagram Bodgit posted earlier

 

 

Al

 

[Alister_G]

Ooh!

 

Just had a thought, I had a similar problem with one of my turnouts on Ladmanlow.

 

Is the fault that you are getting, that the loco runs through straight ahead, but won't run on the diverging route?

 

I found that on one of my points the rail on the diverging route was dead, see here:

 

 

The section marked in red was never live, no matter which way the point was switched. I added a seperate dropper to that rail, wired to the frog output of the Autofrog, and it worked fine after that.

 

Have a go with a meter and see if this is what you are getting.

 

Al.

[pitbull1845]

Ok, insulated fish plates are in the correct place. Wiring is as per the diagram. 

I've upgraded the power to the NCE and they now work fine with normal size loco. The 08 however still struggles and stops. In my case it on the straight ahead route, but us the same on all 3 points. 

I have a multi meter but have no idea how to use it. (picked it up from the Lidl centre aisle as I thought I'd need it one day)

 

So I'll put a dropper on the non working V and connect it to the switch and see if that works. 

 

Thanks for your trouble shooting So far.

[Alister_G]

No problem Scott, glad to help if I can.

 

If upgrading the power has helped, then it does sound more like what Phil the Duck was on about.

 

Al.

[Alister_G]

11 minutes ago, pitbull1845 said:

I have a multi meter but have no idea how to use it.

 

You will need to select AC Volts, and a range somewhere like 50V, and not less than 20, for safety. Then put one probe on one stock rail, and the other probe on the other stock rail, and you should see a reading. That just proves you've got the meter set up. 

 

Then, keeping the first probe on the first stock rail, move the other probe to the various bits of the crossing and see if you get a reading. If you don't get a reading at all on any of them, move the first probe to the opposite stock rail and try again. You should get a reading on all the rails marked in green in my picture above, and the red one. If you don't, that's where your problem is.

 

Al.

[pitbull1845]

Sorry for the delay, was having video instructions from PaulRhB.

If I've done it correctly then the frog would appear to be fine. it just doesn't seem to recognise the 08 shorting so doesn't change the polarity? 

[PaulRhB]

It’s odd as it runs fine one way and powers the frog but the other way the frog is dead. When he bridges the insulation with a screwdriver it runs, (not shorts), but stops as soon as you remove the bridged insulation. It’s like it’s powered one way and no power the other.

Edited November 4, 2019 by PaulRhB

[Alister_G]

Hmm, that does sound odd.

 

If you short out the frog with the end of a screwdriver, can you hear the Autofrog relay click?

 

Al.

[pitbull1845]

7 minutes ago, Alister_G said:

Hmm, that does sound odd.

 

If you short out the frog with the end of a screwdriver, can you hear the Autofrog relay click?

 

Al.

I've come out of the garage now before I take a chainsaw to.it. 

I don't recall hearing anything whilst fiddling, but ill double check tomorrow after work. in the meantime I'm hoping the frog fairies sort it all out. 

[Alister_G]

Yep, best thing to do sometimes.

 

Hope you get it sorted mate.

 

Al.

[Andrew P]

Away in Wales with little interwhatsit on me phone.

Just to say that my Hornby 08 with sound ran over the Cadley Hill points on speed step 1 of 28 and you could hardly see the loco moving but no stalling or sound loss. I cant imagine what your problem can be as they are normally 100% reliable.

Good luck and i hope you get it sorted Scott.

[pitbull1845]

29 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Away in Wales with little interwhatsit on me phone.

Just to say that my Hornby 08 with sound ran over the Cadley Hill points on speed step 1 of 28 and you could hardly see the loco moving but no stalling or sound loss. I cant imagine what your problem can be as they are normally 100% reliable.

Good luck and i hope you get it sorted Scott.

This is all your fault Andrew!

[pitbull1845]

Afternoon, 

Well I'm no further forward with the layout. My mojo has gone completely as a result of those point polarity switches. 

Really frustrated with it and wished I never bought them. 

I have a few options, unmodify the points and revert back to what I know, but that will be a bit of a faff. 

Or use the seep point motor frog polarity option. But I'm told they're not very reliable

 

To be honest I'm also considering ripping the whole lot up again and having a single line BLT and a dmu! 

 

Keep smiling and enjoy this relaxing stress free hobby.