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Stroudley high arc roof covered vans


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Hi, these two photos, which show a type of unidentified 4 wheel van, date from around 1886-1889. The first, taken after the rebuilding of Lewes station in 1888/9 and the second is at Newhaven around 1886. They both appear to be of the Newhaven Boat Train. The low arc roofed van just behind the loco is probably a diag. D47/ van. Can anyone identify these high arc roofed vehicles; they are probably not carriage trucks since they are said to have no end doors. A diagram number, or even a drawing would be helpful.

 

vince

 

IMG_20191018_144107_resized_20191018_025049141-1.jpg

IMG_20191018_144254_resized_20191018_025048823-1.jpg

 

Edited by Stoat's Nest
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These are considered to be the 'large' Goods Grand Vitesse vans. No diagram number. Mentioned and illustrated in both LB&SCR Carriages vol 2 and Mike King Southern Wagons Pictorial. If 4mm, 5&9 models produce a kit.

Cheers, Ian

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Thanks Ian. In the HMRS photos section there is a photo of an early Grande Vitesse* van (see photo below) but, because of the quality of the photo the top of the roof seems to blend into the sky quite effectively, so it's hard to make out the pitch of the roof. If your'e right, it answers another question that's been lurking in the back of my mind, which was, how many Grande Vitesse vans would be included when making up a boat train. In the E.J. Bedford book there is a photo of a Stroudley D2 0-4-2  "Paris" that mentions the "Petite Vitesse" thrice weekly service from Caen (Newhaven to London - Victoria or London Bridge?). Can it be assumed the same vans were used for these perishable goods(Seasonal fruit).

 

The photo at Newhaven above appears to show a single window in the central section which doesn't appear in the HMRS photo so, are they the same type of vehicle?

 

Hard to tell from the HMRS photo, but would the van below have been in Teak finish. 

 

vince 

 

*Billinton designed a later GrV van with louvred panels 

LB&SCR Grande Vitesse van 1903-1911 - Orthogonal.jpg

Edited by Stoat's Nest
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The usual port for Caen is Ouisterham, or maybe Le Havre, isn’t it?
 

If so, the longer sea passage might account for the vitesse being a bit petiter.

 

Van loads of calvados, pont  l’eveque and apple tarts ...... what a feast!

 

No, Honfleur to Littlehampton, at least for passenger boats when this map was drawn!

951A0EBD-CB48-4C5A-923B-989008DFEB18.jpeg

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It's certainly Ouistreham today - Sherry sailed from there on Thursday afternoon! But I wonder whether when boats were smaller they were able to navigate closer to Caen. 

 

Incidentally the LBSCR map is wonderfully fanciful, since the line to Littlehampton appears to miss Epsom altogether, and Reigate is marked where Dorking is. 

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20 hours ago, ianmaccormac said:

These are considered to be the 'large' Goods Grand Vitesse vans. No diagram number. Mentioned and illustrated in both LB&SCR Carriages vol 2 and Mike King Southern Wagons Pictorial. If 4mm, 5&9 models produce a kit.

Cheers, Ian

 

"If 4mm, 5&9 models produce a kit".  

 

Having looked at the 5 & 9 website it shows a 4 wheel carriage truck and, I quote the description from the page : (Covered Carriage Truck Please Note: This kit is discontinued. High roofed vehicle for conveying horse-drawn carriages.)

 

The 5 & 9 vehicle in question (seen below) has a tumblehome and the curvature of the roof, although a high pitched arc,  is not a simple curve, but curves steeply near the edge of the roof where it joins the carriage sides like a "balloon' coach profile. Compare this with the two photos on my original post where the carriages have straight sides, (no tumblehome) meeting the solebar.  The sides of both vehicles in the Newhaven photo plainly have horizontal planking and vertical metal strapping as in the HMRS photo seen above.

 

 

coverd carriage truck.png

Edited by Stoat's Nest
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I think the website is a bit out of date nowadays. If you email Chris direct he will point you in the right direction. It is a different kit to the one pictured above, which, as you say, is one of the CCT vehicles.

There was a talk last Saturday at the Brighton Circle AGM where Simon Turner showed photos of wagons including the early GV vans. It is only in the last 10 to 15 years that these have been confirmed as Brighton vehicles and new photos keep coming out the woodwork. 

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On 19/10/2019 at 08:25, Oldddudders said:

It's certainly Ouistreham today - Sherry sailed from there on Thursday afternoon! But I wonder whether when boats were smaller they were able to navigate closer to Caen. 

 

Incidentally the LBSCR map is wonderfully fanciful, since the line to Littlehampton appears to miss Epsom altogether, and Reigate is marked where Dorking is. 

 

"wonderfully fanciful" It also puts Marseille just north of the Isle de France, east of Rouen.

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