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126 DMUs on Western Region


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On 20/10/2019 at 21:51, russ p said:

 

 

Wonder if the lead intermediate driving vehicle in the last picture is one of two in the same set or it wouldn't be able to multi up with the rear 3 car set

 

I never quite worked out the logic of the coaches built for these sets.  In all there were 20 full DMBS, 9 Int DMBS, 14 Int DMS, 8 TRB and 13 TF.  My distant memory was that the 6 car sets were made up as DMBS(F)-DMBS(I)-TRB-TF-DMS(I)-DMBS(F) however there were exceptions and it was not unusual to have an two Intermediates at one end.  Having fewer TRBs than TFs would suggest that some ran without Buffets as there was enough stock to create 10 full sets.  Not sure what was required for the full Edinburgh to Glasgow circuit.

 

Jim

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Good point Jim.

I never understood why there were so many a) brake vehicles or b) driving cabs in a typical rake, surely a lot of wasted space (and expense). 

I can understand having Intermediate DMs at one end, so that two units could couple into a continuous train (particularly for buffet access). This is what the 126s did.

If it was a case of having more power for the fast E-G services, why didn't they just do the same as the Trans-Pennine units and have powered coaches without cabs?

They just seem to be a mish-mash of incongruous details that made them more non-standard than they should've been:

No marker lights or destination blinds, just a basic stencil

No jumper cables on the ends of certain Driving cars.

No through Control Air pipe so each coach has to provide its own air supply and means incompatibility with the majority of other DMMUs (continued up until withdrawal of the 126s)

Intermediate Driving and/or Brake Coaches where those features are surplus in normal formation.

 

However, this basic and slightly clunky design would serve the E-G fast trains for years (until the cl.27 p-p came along) and the integral construction paved the way for the mk2 coach design!

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15 minutes ago, keefer said:

Good point Jim.

I never understood why there were so many a) brake vehicles or b) driving cabs in a typical rake, surely a lot of wasted space (and expense). 

I can understand having Intermediate DMs at one end, so that two units could couple into a continuous train (particularly for buffet access). This is what the 126s did.

If it was a case of having more power for the fast E-G services, why didn't they just do the same as the Trans-Pennine units and have powered coaches without cabs?

They just seem to be a mish-mash of incongruous details that made them more non-standard than they should've been:

No marker lights or destination blinds, just a basic stencil

No jumper cables on the ends of certain Driving cars.

No through Control Air pipe so each coach has to provide its own air supply and means incompatibility with the majority of other DMMUs (continued up until withdrawal of the 126s)

Intermediate Driving and/or Brake Coaches where those features are surplus in normal formation.

 

However, this basic and slightly clunky design would serve the E-G fast trains for years (until the cl.27 p-p came along) and the integral construction paved the way for the mk2 coach design!

 

As I've said before I wonder how you isolate the final drives on a failed power car with no air?

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1 hour ago, keefer said:

 

No marker lights or destination blinds, just a basic stencil

 

The E-G units had no destination blinds on the cab fronts - neither did the Class 27s on E-G push-pull duties. It must be assumed that passengers for Inter-City type services did not need to look at the front of the train to see where it was going...

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On 02/11/2019 at 22:57, keefer said:

A thought just occurred to me - did the 114s ever work in multiple? as any pics I've seen only show them running around as 2-car units.

They must've worked with the 105s initially, for the incompatibility to show up.

See the details of the Lockington crash in Summer 1986. Class 105 multipled with Class 114 colliding with a Ford Escort van. The rear axle of the van caused the leading DMU vehicle to be pole-vaulted into the adjacent field, and a right old mess ensued...

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Just a note for info , in case anyone looking . Kits for these early units , along with the later Ayrshire Class 126s are available from Silver Fox . I believe they maybe looking at supplying completed units sometime in the future . You will need some donor coaches for the kit .

 

I started off last year doing a Trix cut and shut and I got some cab mouldings from Silver Fox to try and complete it . Idea being to put it on Lima 117 chassis per Signaller69s thread which is what inspired me to try it . 

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Russ P , 

Luckily for crews on early DMUs a bit of kit in the van - the toasting fork, was all you needed to isolate final drives. a dog clutch was fitted  bogie end of the transmissions and you could degear with a tug and turn !!  I did this at Four oaks on a 117 four car cross city set as the transmission would not reverse. The driver was very surprised that as a guard  I knew what to do and told the LDC at Saltley on his return. I was "interviewed" by the LDC - pointed out it was on the training video !  "What video- we know nothing about that! " was the angst report! I supplied my copy of the BTC dmu driving film  as on a video- got back months later in a very tatty case.  Made me smile and got a few friends from drivers and amused the guards reps that "we" got one over the drivers! Happy days.      

Fork also useful for fishing bags and shoes out of the oily cess at stations. 

Robert 

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5 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

Russ P , 

Luckily for crews on early DMUs a bit of kit in the van - the toasting fork, was all you needed to isolate final drives. a dog clutch was fitted  bogie end of the transmissions and you could degear with a tug and turn !!  I did this at Four oaks on a 117 four car cross city set as the transmission would not reverse. The driver was very surprised that as a guard  I knew what to do and told the LDC at Saltley on his return. I was "interviewed" by the LDC - pointed out it was on the training video !  "What video- we know nothing about that! " was the angst report! I supplied my copy of the BTC dmu driving film  as on a video- got back months later in a very tatty case.  Made me smile and got a few friends from drivers and amused the guards reps that "we" got one over the drivers! Happy days.      

Fork also useful for fishing bags and shoes out of the oily cess at stations. 

Robert 

 

Aye but if you have no air you can't move the sliding dog for it to centre in the final drive.

On other sets its possible to supply a defective car from another power car or a loco 

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21 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Aye but if you have no air you can't move the sliding dog for it to centre in the final drive.

On other sets its possible to supply a defective car from another power car or a loco 

On the NYMR, I had to get the two stored Class 101 power cars ready to be dragged away to the other end of the line. We buffered up with the "good" 101 and coupled the air supply pipe. Having already used the toasting fork to release the locking pin, it was just a case of manually operating the Forward and Reverse EP valves by hand until the sliding dogs were locked in mid position.

 

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5 hours ago, EddieK said:

On the NYMR, I had to get the two stored Class 101 power cars ready to be dragged away to the other end of the line. We buffered up with the "good" 101 and coupled the air supply pipe. Having already used the toasting fork to release the locking pin, it was just a case of manually operating the Forward and Reverse EP valves by hand until the sliding dogs were locked in mid position.

 

 

Thats the way I used to do it , much easier 

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On 08/04/2021 at 16:07, luckymucklebackit said:

 

I never quite worked out the logic of the coaches built for these sets.  In all there were 20 full DMBS, 9 Int DMBS, 14 Int DMS, 8 TRB and 13 TF.  My distant memory was that the 6 car sets were made up as DMBS(F)-DMBS(I)-TRB-TF-DMS(I)-DMBS(F) however there were exceptions and it was not unusual to have an two Intermediates at one end.  Having fewer TRBs than TFs would suggest that some ran without Buffets as there was enough stock to create 10 full sets.  Not sure what was required for the full Edinburgh to Glasgow circuit.

 

Jim

The WR ran 9-car sets, hence the discrepancy with vehicle numbers, the WR had 4 leading DMBS, 8 intermediate DMBS, 4 TFK and 2 TFKRB.

 

The ScR ended up with everything after the Cross-Country DMUs arrived to replace the 79xxx vehicles so ended up with a number of 'out of place' vehicles you might say.

 

On 08/04/2021 at 21:56, keefer said:

I never understood why there were so many a) brake vehicles or b) driving cabs in a typical rake, surely a lot of wasted space (and expense). 

They were originally classified as mainline stock, so the regulations in force originally required a brake at both ends. This was later relaxed hence the WR sets having all brake van power cars while the ScR later batch had intermediate power cars without a brake and the later 126s having the brake van at the rear of the leading DMBS and the intermediate power cars not having a brake van.

 

On 08/04/2021 at 22:13, russ p said:

 

As I've said before I wonder how you isolate the final drives on a failed power car with no air?

You can't. A failure movement is this restricted to 25mph with the drive still 'in'.

 

On 10/04/2021 at 15:19, EddieK said:

On the NYMR, I had to get the two stored Class 101 power cars ready to be dragged away to the other end of the line. We buffered up with the "good" 101 and coupled the air supply pipe. Having already used the toasting fork to release the locking pin, it was just a case of manually operating the Forward and Reverse EP valves by hand until the sliding dogs were locked in mid position.

 

Not possible on White Circle cars, each power car has its own control air supply.

 

On 08/04/2021 at 21:56, keefer said:

I can understand having Intermediate DMs at one end, so that two units could couple into a continuous train (particularly for buffet access). This is what the 126s did.

If it was a case of having more power for the fast E-G services, why didn't they just do the same as the Trans-Pennine units and have powered coaches without cabs?

Because originally they ran as you described and off-peak 3-car sets did run which would link up to form 6-car sets as required. I assume once the ex-WR cars were available the bolstered fleet allowed 6-car formations to become the norm and as they were no longer routinely split in traffic it made sense to concentrate first class together in the middle with the buffet.

 

The arrangement also meant if a power cars air supply failed, which would render the horn inoperative and thus it couldn't lead the train, it could be quickly removed revealing a cab which the train could then be driven from.

 

These are the reasons I've heard for the remarshalling to form sets arranged with pairs of power cars sandwiching the trailers instead of coupled 3-car sets.

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I  can't understand at all why there was no control air pipe at all,

The white circle MU system seems to be a hybrid of yellow diamond and blue square with the same controls as yellow diamond on the 79xxx cars but similar jumpers to blue square.  Both these systems and other systems had a control air pipe so can't see any logic of white circle not having one 

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8 hours ago, russ p said:

I  can't understand at all why there was no control air pipe at all,

The white circle MU system seems to be a hybrid of yellow diamond and blue square with the same controls as yellow diamond on the 79xxx cars but similar jumpers to blue square.  Both these systems and other systems had a control air pipe so can't see any logic of white circle not having one 

Pneumatically the control system was like the earlier designs, minus through air control. Electrically the 79xxx cars were an advancement of the usual early-1950s Yellow Diamond system, the later 126s however had their electrical system based on the Blue Square system. This necessitated modifications later to allow both the 79xxx E&G and Cl. 126 Ayrshire units to work together.

 

Perhaps the lack of through air control is simply they didn't see the need for it? The cars were only ever going to operate together, not with any other classes.

 

The drivers instructions don't really mention the control system intricacies, merely making mention of the fact the control air supply is unique to each power car.

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