GMRC Series 2 - Episode 8 - The Final - 'Surprise Surprise' - 5.40pm

[noiseboy72]

I think a better Bake Off analogy would be if you had planned and practised your 3 hour showstopper to be emailed on the way to the tent to be told you now only had 2 hours...

 

The production team would have had a fair idea just how long the layout filming was likely to take, based upon previous rounds and previous years, so I guess it was a tough call to have to allow another 3-4 hours for this and would have been based on discussions with Senior Camera Bloke Sig, the mini cam guys and the senior lighting rigger. I would image that they would also have had a deadline to get out of Fawley and there was obviously a lot more rigging put in for the final as well, with lighting trusses to strike along with the rest of the kit. 

 

WCR,  Sorry to see the damage to your layout. Did it come apart at the joint while it was being dragged out? I amazed at how well ours survived being moved. We managed to get both of them into the back of a Sprinter in one piece by reinforcing them across the joins and then putting the first one in, lifting it up and screwing it to the legs - positioned on the outside of the layout. Once that little trick was achieved, we slid the 2nd layout in underneath, lifting it onto the wheel arches and screwing it to the legs. When we came to remove them at the unit we stored them in, they were still in really good condition, requiring minimal work to split them back into 3 boards and subsequently reassemble them.  Hopefully yours can equally be repaired.

Edited October 27, 2019 by noiseboy72

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I don't know if this is a quirk on my recording, but as the final gets into the demo / judging it seems to expect advert breaks that aren't there (I get a "Welcome back" and the programme continues).

If that's how it was broadcast I wonder if it suggests two things:

1) If there had been a longer show, the first thing added might have been more ads before more programme time?

2) Perhaps the gradual shift to an earlier time on Saturdays was planned - to lead to the situation whereby the final few minutes of the GMRC Final overlapped with the start of the Hallowe'en Strictly Special on BBC1, in the hope people stayed on Channel 5 (an ad break could have undone this)?

Just a thought - I don't know if viewing data would be able to tell if the David v Goliath match-up worked or not: but 

credit to KBG and everyone involved for a show seen as worth taking on that scheduling challenge, I'd say.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Markwj]

I found on my recording 2 lots of adverts were missing (not that I am complaining.

 

I see they made railriders to be the 'baddies' but both me and the missus independently thought Simon came across like David Brent from the office but I was surprised to see one of the team members smoking when they were having a chat. I thought there may have been rules not to show smoking in a program kids could have been watching.

 

I really couldn't choose between railmen of Kent and whose counting rivets both teams deserved to win.

 

Hope there is a third series.

[Pacific231G]

On 25/10/2019 at 14:45, JohnR said:

 

 

There has to be a typo in there. A drop from 1M to 256 000 seems very unlikely especially given the total.  656,000 seems more credible but the rounded figures to the nearest thousand don't square with the more exact figures for the every other heat and the first semi-final. Running Heat 5 the day after heat 4 must have confused many. It certainly confused me though fortunately not my Tivo box. Apart from that glitchy figure the drop in viewers seems quite low. Most series lose viewers over their run.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Pacific231G

[JohnR]

28 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

There has to be a typo in there. A drop from 1M to 256 000 seems very unlikely especially given the total.  656,000 seems more credible but the rounded figures to the nearest thousand don't square with the more exact figures for the every other heat and the first semi-final. Running Heat 5 the day after heat 4 must have confused many. It certainly confused me though fortunately not my Tivo box. Apart from that glitchy figure the drop in viewers seems quite low. Most series lose viewers over their run.

 

Its partly because that episode dropped out of the top 15, so the figures were only available on another website, which calculated the split slightly differently.  The 256,000 was the number who watched it live, while the BARB figures also include those who time-shifted.

[LNER4479]

7 hours ago, Paul_in_Ricky said:

 

Not sure where you're getting this idea of extra days from no one else has mentioned it.

Yes, just to clarify that it was four days on site for the full production crew, irrespective of the change in finishing time. The final day simply ended up being 100% filming the demos with all camera crews involved.

 

Another aspect that may not be apparent is that during the live demos in front of the audience, the cameras are largely behind your layout to capture the reaction of the audience and presenters. After the final demo is done, the audience are shoo'd out with indecent haste and then you do it all again with the cameras now at the front. In fact, three different cameramen have a go, each in turn (ie you run it up to THREE more times), with their own individual 'take' on it, presumably so as to give the edit team as much to work with as possible.

 

So the film crews were there well into the late afternoon on the last day, well after the audience had gone. No-one gets to go home early on GMRC!

[Keith Addenbrooke]

53 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

After the final demo is done, the audience are shoo'd out with indecent haste and then you do it all again with the cameras now at the front. In fact, three different cameramen have a go, each in turn (ie you run it up to THREE more times), with their own individual 'take' on it, presumably so as to give the edit team as much to work with as possible.

I wonder if this explains how the wagons in the Railriders' train appear to change their order during the demo?

 

I've rewatched the final this evening, knowing the result, to look for things that weren't highlighted in the edits shown or the commentary:

 

On 26/10/2019 at 22:00, CharlieJohnson said:

Yeah there was so much more packed into our layout that didn't even get a mention.

 

A lot of things that were visible I missed first time! It was worth a second look. *

 

If anything, I think it comes across as harder to judge on a second viewing (perhaps the 5-point scale could be a bit cumbersome in this respect?).

 

I did like the idea of using an Inspection saloon for the demo train, as used by WCR.

 

I'm not suggesting it would have affected the result at all, but I do note from the Oct BRM review that the Western Pullman is one of those models that doesn't use tension lock couplings, so does the chance of decoupling change? In series 1 the same Javelin ran across all the boards, though I understand from the RMWeb discussion last year there were operational issues with that train at the time.

 

My final point, it would be remiss of me to contribute to this thread and not acknowledge "Uncle Nick's" structure modelling and backscenes for consistently delivering for his team. Railmen were worthy winners of a tough competition. Well done all once again.

________________

* Fortunately I missed a lot of the 'puns' too first time, unfortunately I noticed more of them this time.

[2mmMark]

On 27/10/2019 at 00:30, LNER4479 said:

 

Whinge alert! My only real gripe with KBG was that they altered the rules for the final at the 11th hour and 59 minute. The published rules clearly stated that teams would have 32 hours build time for their final layouts as opposed to 22 for Heat and Semis. This equated to three long 10 hour days, plus a final two hours on the morning of the 4th morning before the public came in.

 

As we were driving towards Fawley Hill on the afternoon of the 3rd came the email from Pat - we would require to stop building at 5pm on the third day. They'd been thinking through the logistics of the filming of the demos, with four joined up mega-layouts and decided that they needed all of the fourth day for that. The remainder of day 3 was to be tidy up time. Well, our 32 hour plan for our zany layout was impossible enough as it was but to then have 5 hours taken off us and with a team of only 5 ...  well we were sunk before we started to be honest.

 

HOWEVER (end of whinge) - it was the same for all four teams so we put on a brave face and made the best of it. It was great fun trying and there were some truly memorable moments.

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect I'm not alone in thinking that all four teams should have stood their ground on this rule change and refused to start building until the missing time was reinstated.  No layouts = no final.   Maybe it was done to create more pressure, more jeopardy and some "good" TV moments.

Well, a massed walk-out of the participants at a crucial stage would have made for especially good TV.  "Surprise surprise, we're on strike, film that, yer b--------!"

The Great Made In Dagenham Model Railway Challenge.

[2mmMark]

11 hours ago, Markwj said:

I found on my recording 2 lots of adverts were missing (not that I am complaining.

 

 

I noticed that too.  Obviously the programme was edited with the ad breaks placed in.  Either the scheduling was very tight or C5 failed to sell the advertising space.

The Hornby ad in the other breaks is rather good.

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

I suspect I'm not alone in thinking that all four teams should have stood their ground on this rule change and refused to start building until the missing time was reinstated.  No layouts = no final.   Maybe it was done to create more pressure, more jeopardy and some "good" TV moments.

Well, a massed walk-out of the participants at a crucial stage would have made for especially good TV.  "Surprise surprise, we're on strike, film that, yer b--------!"

 

Or maybe they would have cobbled together something from the old footage with the judges making a final decision without any new layout builds. It's not like there would be a shortage of unseen footage after all. Even if there had been a "strike", when it was resolved the time stood on the picket line would ultimately have just come out of the build time so made matters worse. 

 

Everyone got caught in the same way so it wasn't unfair to any single team. Bad things happen - none of us know the full back story and arguing about it now (which can't change anything) simply detracts from the fun of an enjoyable series.  Making this show is still a learning curve for everyone involved.

[t-b-g]

17 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or maybe they would have cobbled together something from the old footage with the judges making a final decision without any new layout builds. It's not like there would be a shortage of unseen footage after all. Even if there had been a "strike", when it was resolved the time stood on the picket line would ultimately have just come out of the build time so made matters worse. 

 

Everyone got caught in the same way so it wasn't unfair to any single team. Bad things happen - none of us know the full back story and arguing about it now (which can't change anything) simply detracts from the fun of an enjoyable series.  Making this show is still a learning curve for everyone involved.

 

It certainly seems that the teams took it in a decent spirit and as often happens, it is others who have decided to speak out against it on their behalf. Whether they want it or not.

[Ian Morgan]

Well done to everyone involved. I really enjoyed watching all the episodes this year. I might even have to go to Warley to see some of the layouts.

 

[2mmMark]

33 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or maybe they would have cobbled together something from the old footage with the judges making a final decision without any new layout builds. It's not like there would be a shortage of unseen footage after all. Even if there had been a "strike", when it was resolved the time stood on the picket line would ultimately have just come out of the build time so made matters worse. 

 

Everyone got caught in the same way so it wasn't unfair to any single team. Bad things happen - none of us know the full back story and arguing about it now (which can't change anything) simply detracts from the fun of an enjoyable series.  Making this show is still a learning curve for everyone involved.

I take my hat off to Team Grantham for still tackling their plan and giving it their best shot. Their engineering skills and obvious ambition made them my favourite team.

 

It may well have been impossible in the time allowed but if we worried about what's possible, where would that leave the cucumber trombone?

[MarkSG]

I was a little disappointed with the final, I thought that the four new layouts built for it weren't up to the standard of the heat and semi-final layouts by the same teams. I suspect that the additional pressure of getting the three working together was a significant factor in that, as were the last minute rule changes.

 

I do think that the best team won on the day, but I'd have liked to have seen a bit more emphasis on giving the teams time to concentrate on building a single new layout rather than linking up existing ones.

 

Does anyone know which of the layouts will be at Warley? I know we've been promised the winning layout, but is that just the final layout or does it include the full three-layout set? And will any of the others be there, too? I seem to recall reading that Loco Ladies will be present, but will anyone else?

[Pacific231G]

3 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

 

I suspect I'm not alone in thinking that all four teams should have stood their ground on this rule change and refused to start building until the missing time was reinstated.  No layouts = no final.   Maybe it was done to create more pressure, more jeopardy and some "good" TV moments.

Well, a massed walk-out of the participants at a crucial stage would have made for especially good TV.  "Surprise surprise, we're on strike, film that, yer b--------!"

The Great Made In Dagenham Model Railway Challenge.

 

I think it would have guaranteed no third series and quite possibly no second series either. Ch 5 wouldn't have accepted an incomplete series from KBG. It would simply have been announced months ago that there would be no second series due to "production difficulties" Perhaps more realistically, KBG might have scheduled in an extra day at huge expense and taken a massive financial hit. Either way, in the industry, GMRC would likely have taken its place in the annals of Great Television Disasters and railway modellers would have joined the list of types of people you avoid working with. That would have pretty much guaranteed no producer wanting to touch our hobby with a barge pole for years and most TV Coverage reverting to the "silly old men and boys playing with toy trains" reports that we seem thanfully to have overcome.

 

The rule change was very probably the result of unanticipated challenges.  I've directed cookery competitions and they were challenging enough. Given the number of people and the breadth of skills involved, GMRC is a far more complex operation than say Bake Off or Master Chef and the production company have genuinely been breaking new ground. When it was first announced I admit to being very sceptical. Competitive layout building against the clock is not exactly an established feature of our hobby so, unlike cookery, choir of the year, gardening, sheep dog trials et al, there must have been a lot of unknown unknowns.  

 

From what people have reported, and other conversations I've had, it does seem that KBG has a deserved reputation for integrity and established a rapport with all or almost all the teams so they'd have understood that they weren't being take advantage of. I've known other series where that wasn't the case.  The teams have also shown a very realistiic and mature attitide to the whole thing that has done credit to both them and our hobby.

It's also worth remembering that the judging seems to have been based very firmly on what Kathy and Steve saw with their own eyes throughout the build and not on what was or was not filmed.  

Edited October 28, 2019 by Pacific231G

[D9003]

19 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

I don't doubt ALL the teams felt it was 'unfair' to have the build time reduced just before starting work, but the bottom line is that they all were handicapped by it!  From what was broadcast its clear that this reduction in time most affected team Grantham - but had any of the other teams run into problems with their designs they would have been in trouble too.

The change in timings for days 3 and 4 was announced to us at the beginning of Day 3, not before starting work on Day 1. At that stage it was extremely difficult to catch up given the way in which ‘All the fun of the fair’ was being built.

 

That said, we accepted the change and worked our socks off to get the layout presentable.  The demonstration as shown on TV was actually kind to us as there were more issues with the demonstration on the final layout than were shown.

 

Crashing the go-karts was purely an operator error owing to lack of rehearsal time, and our demonstration went downhill from there.

 

On behalf of Team Grantham we are delighted to have received a 5 for creativity - I think it was the only one of the series.  The 2 for build quality was a fair reflection of what we delivered.

 

The entire fairground layout is currently being reworked into the layout that we wanted to build and it and our heat layout will both be shown at the Hartlepool show in 2020.

Edited October 28, 2019 by D9003

[2mmMark]

2 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

I think it would have guaranteed no third series and quite possibly no second series either. Ch 5 wouldn't have accepted an incomplete series from KBG. It would simply have been announced months ago that there would be no second series due to "production difficulties" Perhaps more realistically, KBG would have scheduled in an extra day at huge expense and taken a massive financial hit. Either way, in the industry GMRC would likely have taken its place in the annals of Great Television Disasters and railway modellers would have joined the list of types of people you avoid working with. That would have pretty much guaranteed no producer wanting to touch our hobby with a barge pole for years and most TV Coverage reverting to the "silly old men and boys playing with toy trains" reports that we seem to have overcome.

 

The rule change was very probably the result of unanticipated challenges.  I've directed cookery competitions and they were challenging enough. Given the number of people and the breadth of skills involved, GMRC is a far more complex operation than say Bake Off or Master Chef and the production company have genuinely been breaking new ground. When it was first announced I admit to being very sceptical. Competitive layout building against the clock is not exactly an established feature of our hobby so, unlike cookery, choir of the year, gardening, sheep dog trials et al, there must have been a lot of unknown unknowns.  

 

From what people have reported, and other conversations I've had, it does seem that KBG has a deserved reputation for integrity and established a rapport with all or almost all the teams so they'd have understood that they weren't being take advantage of. I've known other series where that wasn't the case.  The teams have also shown a very realistiic and mature attitide to the whole thing that has done credit to both them and our hobby.

It's also worth remembering that the judging seems to have been based very firmly on what Kathy and Steve saw with their own eyes throughout the build and not on what was or was not filmed.  

 

Steady on matey, my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. That's why I chucked in the "I'm all right Jack" reference.

 

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, hicksan said:

Very interesting. If the manufacturers have twigged that the GMRC is a good opportunity to showcase new products, pre-release, then that is a VERY good sign for the impact the show is having on sales, and the hobby in general AND a good indicator on the future of the show. Hornby's new TV ad is another such indicator. Well done to all the teams for making this possible.

What was filmed but not broadcast was a description and a bit of Tim & James enthusing about each of the 'show trains' used in the final although the manufacturer was not mentioned.  But all of the trains had some good filmed coverage from what I was able to see on a couple of layouts or monitors during recording.

 

20 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Not a particularly good comparison because the teams on the GMRC were advised BEFORE work started. Yes it might well be on the morning of Day 1 - but the change still happened BEFORE the actually competition started. To use your bake off analogy its the same as contestants being told just before they start baking that they will have 2 hours less - not mid-way through the bake.

 

Its all very well complaining on here - but faced with the gargantuan task of extending the contracts / hire agreements, booking extra accommodation at short notice etc is it any wonder the production company reduced the build time instead when the practicalities of shooting the final emerged.

 

Of course such a change will impact the finished product - nobody is suggesting it won't - BUT he reduction of time was the same for all 4 teams and as such in strict competition terms was fair. Yes it adversely impacted team Grantham, who were a man down anyway,  but equally you could also say that going for an ambitious layout that will be a challenge to build within a deadline is their choice in the first place and something a bit less ambitious would have been a wise idea anyway - if you hark back to the heats you will remember that the Rail Riders team lost a team member for a good few hours after they drilled through their finger and if you really were that picky about 'fairness' then you would be demanding all the other teams had to forfeit a team member for the same length of time to keep it 'fair'.  Yes that might have been an accident - but it still had an impact on the teams building ability for a few hours didn't it. Similarly perhaps all the other 3 teams in the final should have had a team member sent home so as to make things 'fair' to Team Grantham

 

 

What we also don't know from the broadcast is whether the judges made any allowance for the shortened construction timeframe - companies don't wash their dirty linen in public do they so its not as if the finished programme is going to mention such a course of action. We already know that there is an awful lot which doesn't get shown and I'm sure Kathy + Steve are far more attentive to TV induced problems than might appear from what gets broadcast.

 

 

Yes Phil.

 

It was obvious from the reporting times which were given as 'audience' that there were changes going on with the shooting schedule for the judging day of the final as our arrival time was progressively brought forward.  So my original intention of popping down to Tesco for additional supplies (additional to what the production team laid on for us all) had to go by the board and that was done on the Saturday instead.  But it did deliver the advantage of missing all the regatta traffic in Henley.  And the finish of shooting came later than we had originally been told hence my estimate of there being in total somewhere between 12 & 16 hours of video including various rostrum shooting which went on when most people were out of the hall for a cuppa in the period before the results were announced (I noticed that one snippet of that made it into the opening shots in the series).

 

So from what I experienced and saw on that day and with the changes in times we had been given it was pretty clear that the producer and director were evolving their approach to the length of time that would be needed to get what they wanted recorded for the judging day and that in the event that extra time was needed even if a lot of what was shot never made it onto the programme which was aired.

[The Stationmaster]

25 minutes ago, D9003 said:

The change in timings for days 3 and 4 was announced to us at the beginning of Day 3, not before starting work on Day 1. At that stage it was extremely difficult to catch up given the way in which ‘All the fun of the fair’ was being built.

 

That said, we accepted the change and worked our socks off to get the layout presentable.  The demonstration as shown on TV was actually kind to us as there were more issues with the demonstration on the final layout than were shown.

 

Crashing the go-karts was purely an operator error owing to lack of rehearsal time, and our demonstration went downhill from there.

 

On behalf of Team Grantham we are delighted to have received a 5 for creativity - I think it was the only one of the series.  The 2 for build quality was a fair reflection of what we delivered.

 

The entire fairground layout is currently being reworked into the layout that we wanted to build and it and our heat layout will both be shown at the Hartlepool show in 2020.

Great  to hear that the fairground layout has also survived (as was hoped by one member of team Grantham from what I overheard) because it was a really great fun piece of railway modelling and it involved  a lot of 'proper railway modelling'.

[alanbuttler]

On 27/10/2019 at 11:01, Phil Parker said:

Question: Jame says the 3D printed figures were 7mm scale, but on the boards they seem to match the 4mm ones. Does he just not know what he's talking about? 

 

If I remember correctly Phil each team had a print in 7mm scale and any others they needed, such as HO for the WCR guys and 4mm for some other teams.

 

Congrats to all the teams, it was great to be involved in a small way and see everything coming together.  The figures created in the final will be on sale soon!

[2mmMark]

25 minutes ago, alanbuttler said:

 

If I remember correctly Phil each team had a print in 7mm scale and any others they needed, such as HO for the WCR guys and 4mm for some other teams.

 

Congrats to all the teams, it was great to be involved in a small way and see everything coming together.  The figures created in the final will be on sale soon!

 

Someday, your prints will come.

[wombatofludham]

Rule changes aside, I think the whole series was another success and portrayed the hobby in a good light.  There was a good mix of groups and made for entertaining television, which, let's face it, is the main objective.  At our trial half-term opening of the Dolgellau layout last week a number of "grockles" mentioned the show which shows that the ordinaries are tuning in and are appreciating railway modelling as an artform, even if the show does focus more on attention grabbing animations.  It was interesting that the public seemed to appreciate that the animations shown on the show are not what to expect on mainstream exhibits and instead enjoyed the "normal" modelling.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

I watched the final last night, after catching up with this series over the last couple of weeks.

 

Congratulations to all involved, and in particular the finalists.

 

I feel that the producers have done very well to find a format that is able to generate engaging TV from what can be a relatively sedate and solitary hobby; the emphasis on animations and "story" isn't what most of us want for our own layouts but works well, along with the personalities involved, in creating a narrative for each show that sustains interest.

 

The only real change I would make would be to omit the requirement for all three layouts to be connected together; this seems a bit pointless and detracts from the final layout entry.  I'd prefer something else to make the final special; maybe more time and a larger baseboard, or even the opportunity to "phone a friend" and have a guest join them for parts of the build.

 

I certainly hope there's a third series.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Ben A

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

It certainly seems that the teams took it in a decent spirit

If I can reiterate that the rule change was really the ONLY thing that gnarked us re KBG. Overwhelmingly they were a brilliant company - to provide some balance, here's some more details in terms of what actually happened:

 

In the final, mad hour, 30 mins, 10 mins of actual build, it became increasingly clear that our layout simply wouldn't look finished. As soon as the 'step away from your layouts' moment happened, Ben Cook (series director) came over and said to me: 'Look - we deliberately held off a close up on your layout in those final moments. You're free to do whatever you need to do to make the layout looked finished for the filming tomorrow'.

 

I thanked him profusely but at the same time felt it was something we shouldn't take too much advantage of, as I'm sure all teams would have liked to spend more time modelling. In the end we limited it to adding a few figures, sticking a few bushes over some of the more glaring holes whilst I spent some time fixing the bridge supports in place for the bridges on the right-hand side (which were otherwise suspended in mid air) - that side of the layout at least looked reasonable for demo filming.

 

The thing that upset most was not having the chance to finish the layout to the standard we were capable of in the time available - that's just a matter of pride as railway modellers and nothing to do with winning and losing per se.

 

For that reason, as Andrew (D9003) has already mentioned, we have resolved to rebuild the layout as we intended and that work is already well in hand. You might be interested to know that that truly awful looking grass mat covering was unceremoniously ripped off within 10 mins of the last bit of filming! 

[D9020 Nimbus]

I also think linking the layouts together was a rather pointless exercise. Also, there should have been only three teams in the final unless the final was given more air time. With these issues we saw far less of the final layouts than the "heat" and semi-final layouts. Also, if there had been only three layouts in the final, there might not have been any need to reduce the build times. (You could have had the winners of each of the semi-finals plus the highest scoring runner-up.)