21ft x 2ft/4ft OO layout - ideas welcome

[Neil P]

I'm currently setting up a layout for me and my boys who both love Thomas. They were given a Hornby 'Gordon' by a neighbour, which I've upgraded to DCC, along with my 35-year-old HST and we've got them Thomas and Percy for Christmas, which I'll be upgrading to DCC before the big day.

 

We're lucky enough to have quite a long room, but not much width, and I've built some baseboards 21ft long in total, and 2ft wide, extending to 3'7" and 4' at the ends to accommodate the curves for two continuous runs. I've used 2nd and 3rd radius settrack from the Hornby sets to make curves at both end. For now I've filled in  the middle with Peco Code 100 flexible track (for future re-use) and made two loops like the attached track plan.

 

The top, left, and right of the layout are against walls.

 

I have the layout set up using a SPROG 3 DCC controller connected to a Raspberry Pi and we're using tablets as throttles. I'm pretty confident with electronics and plan to add some motorised points, signals and perhaps some basic automation in the future.

 

I don't plan to leave the track like this. I've spent a lot of time experimenting with AnyRail, but I'm a bit stuck where to go next, so any advice you could offer would be great. I'm not too worried about sticking *too* closely to the prototype, as this is for fun, but I'd like the track plan to be vaguely plausible. My sons will be running Thomas trains on it, obviously, but it will be broadly modern era as that's what I would enjoy building.

 

Any ideas on where to take the track plan from here would be very welcome:-

 

* I want the layout to have two continuous runs so my sons can control a train each without crashing them into buffers.

 

* I plan to hide the curves at the end under tunnels for 'realism', but what should I do with the long run along the wall? It seems a shame to hide it behind a backscene, especially as we don't have much width. However, if I make them visible with the back two lines becoming 'down' lines and the front two the 'up' lines, I'm unable to connect them in any way without creating a reverse loop (for example to allow access to sidings, bay platforms at a station etc.)  I could make the ends reverse loops instead, but that's potentially a lot of hassle to make it seamless for the boys to operate.

 

* I'd like a line (or one of these two lines) at another level so it can cross over on bridges etc. My sons love layouts where trains disappear into tunnels and cross bridges. Any ideas on what would work well? Ideally I'd like to use foam insulation to make the raised levels,

 

* We don't have a fiddle yard, and once again we don't really want as much of the layout visible as possible, but it would be nice to be able to drive a train off scene and bring in another from a hidden siding. Any suggestions on where I could fit that in?

 

* My sons are desperate to have a turntable. That doesn't really fit in with my modern era idea, but this is for them too so would be good to work out how to accommodate one in the layout.

 

Thanks,

Neil

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, Neil P said:

* I plan to hide the curves at the end under tunnels for 'realism', but what should I do with the long run along the wall? It seems a shame to hide it behind a backscene, especially as we don't have much width. However, if I make them visible with the back two lines becoming 'down' lines and the front two the 'up' lines, I'm unable to connect them in any way without creating a reverse loop (for example to allow access to sidings, bay platforms at a station etc.)  I could make the ends reverse loops instead, but that's potentially a lot of hassle to make it seamless for the boys to operate.

 

Thanks to DCC reverse loops require no intervention electrically, you simply buy a device called a frog juicer and it will automatically handle reversing the polarity on the rails.  You simply need to create the isolated section of track an run the wiring through the circuit board (note this will also be the easy way to handle your proposed turntable).

 

So for your kids perspective the only question is can they set the points?

 

Another possibility, if you operate all of the points using motors, you could likely wire up a "big red button" that anyone could push that would automatically ensure all the points were set so the layout becomes a safe racetrack.  Actually, only the points on the racetrack would need motors which might help.

 

 

4 hours ago, Neil P said:

* I'd like a line (or one of these two lines) at another level so it can cross over on bridges etc. My sons love layouts where trains disappear into tunnels and cross bridges. Any ideas on what would work well? Ideally I'd like to use foam insulation to make the raised levels,

 

Most obvious would be to make the 2 lines at the back of the board elevated, and if you want bridges then at each end have the 2 sets of lines swap position - so as the tracks at the left end come from the back of the layout and round to the front instead of turning and following the front of the layout they instead climb up and go over to become the back tracks.

 

One end you can have the this done via a tunnel, the other end a cutting/bridge?

 

4 hours ago, Neil P said:

 

* We don't have a fiddle yard, and once again we don't really want as much of the layout visible as possible, but it would be nice to be able to drive a train off scene and bring in another from a hidden siding. Any suggestions on where I could fit that in?

 

Depends on how comfortable you are doing the necessary work, and what vertical space you have / don't have.

 

Easiest would be to create some storage underneath an elevated back set of tracks.

 

More difficult would be to create a fiddle yard beneath the layout, accessed by the same end return loops if you are doing an elevation change there anyway for the visible section.  So if you have the front track climbing through the curve to become an elevated back loop you could also create a "siding"  that does the reverse to go down.

 

 

4 hours ago, Neil P said:

 

* My sons are desperate to have a turntable. That doesn't really fit in with my modern era idea, but this is for them too so would be good to work out how to accommodate one in the layout.

 

 

Place it on the hillside at one of the ends?

[Neil P]

Some good suggestions there mdvle. Thanks. 
 

I especially like the idea of a big red button to set points to “race track” mode. Should be easy to do with JMRI. 
 

I’m not sure whether I have enough room for the gradients you suggest at both ends though, but I will have a play in AnyRail. 

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Thanks to DCC reverse loops require no intervention electrically, you simply buy a device called a frog juicer and it will automatically handle reversing the polarity on the rails. 

 

Other methods of controlling reverse loops are available which don't rely on short circuits.

[mdvle]

33 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Other methods of controlling reverse loops are available which don't rely on short circuits.

 

But do they require no intervention by the operator of trains, which seems to be the goal for making it the layout reasonably easy for young kids?

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

But do they require no intervention by the operator of trains, which seems to be the goal for making it the layout reasonably easy for young kids?

Yes, fully automatic.

[Harlequin]

Hi Neil,

 

If you move the backmost tracks even a few inches away from the backscene you'd have room to do some simple low-relief landscaping behind.

Or even better, curve it away to get some variation.

Or even better still, make the tracks a figure of 8, which would do a number of things:

• Level changes (OK for Thomas and a few wagons, not so great for longer prototypical trains).
• Bridge with trains crossing above trains - visually a lot of fun.
• Embankment along back would not need so much landscaping behind (possibly simply sky) because it would create it's own horizon.

The levels might be tricky to work out. You'd need around 65-70mm from railtop to railtop when the tracks cross and that would have to be the summit with gradients either side.

Ideally, the crossing bridge should not be central or else it would dominate the scene.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Harlequin

[Neil P]

12 hours ago, melmerby said:

Yes, fully automatic.

 

Do you have a link to more info, please? The auto-reverse modules look quite pricey, as it looks like I'd need four.

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Neil P said:

 

Do you have a link to more info, please? The auto-reverse modules look quite pricey, as it looks like I'd need four.

 

It may not suit everybody but I have quite a long double track reverse loop.

I have used two of these:

https://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:ksm-sg

 

Juicers are a simple way of doing it but the idea of using a short circuit* to detect when a changeover is needed is an anathema to me so I went for the LDT reversers.

I built the kits, which at the exchange rate at the time ( >€1.30 to £1), made them competetively priced.

 

*some DCC kit doesn't like them.

Edited October 22, 2019 by melmerby

[DCB]

I would stick a station in the middle by  putting an S bend or two in the rear tracks and then put a rising track at the back leading  over a tunnel housing the main lines  and through a loop to come down to the station again with a diamond crossing over the outer loop. Put a bay accessible from either side in the middle  and a loco depot with turntable in one end.  Apart from the sort of branch being non reversible you can terminate trains in the bay and send them back out the other way with a new loco and run branch, express and goods trains on the layout together. It would look good seeing an express overtake a goods when inn sensible grown up mode and be great for racing in child mode. See sketch. 

[Neil P]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, and the very helpful track plan from David. Based on a combination of what you've suggested above, I've come up with the following work-in-progress.

The high level (red lines) represent the remains of a closed high-level station, now used as a maintenance depot, carriage sidings and sheds for heritage engines (the track that looks like a headshunt is part of a disused line that I plan to cover with weeds). The high level section is accessed via a hidden gradient at the rear of the layout.

 

I've added a return loop on the right of the layout so that steam engines don't get stuck on the low level.

 

I ended up hiding the long straights at the back underneath the high-level section after all. I thought I could add some points and use one of these lines for hidden storage when it's not in 'racetrack' mode.

 

I have some ideas on how to access the hidden lines at the back in case of derailments. The centre section would have a removable retaining wall, the left hand side would have some removable buildings and on the right the top 'terrace' of the quarry would lift away. 

 

This is a work-in-progress, so once again, I'd be grateful for any comments. Any potential build issues I might have missed? I know it's not really a prototypical layout, but is there anything that looks particularly odd? Any operational issues? (One of the disadvantages of this compared to David's suggested layout is that the turntable is so far removed from the station, for example). Is there too much track for a layout of this size?

 

Thanks, again, for all your help.

 

(P.S. I'm aware that I need a way for locos to leave the carriage sidings. Still working on that!)

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Neil P
Typo

[Flying Pig]

It would make more sense to put the loco shed and sidings next to the station if possible and move the quarry to the end of the branch line.  You could even have a passenger service along the branch.

[Nearholmer]

One thing you might want to consider, depending upon the age of your children, is protecting some free space on the layout, giving them a pile of set-track and a few points, and letting them sort out what they do with it. It’s the way we all learned.

 

You will come home from work to find ludicrously improbable track arrangements in the free zone, but they will learn a huge amount from it, and get the idea that you can change track arrangements, which a firmly fixed scheme doesn’t convey.

 

Screw the race-tracks down tight, though!

[Neil P]

5 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

It would make more sense to put the loco shed and sidings next to the station if possible and move the quarry to the end of the branch line.  You could even have a passenger service along the branch.

 

Yes - I agree. It's tricky though -  I need the turntable at the end of the branchline, really. Also, the mountain/quarry and the viaduct go together, which makes moving the quarry to the left side of the layout tricky.

Perhaps I could have a small branchline terminus station on the high level, which means that the sidings make more sense?