Mk1 Pullman Bar cars help needed

[Paul80]

Hi

 

I am looking for some help with a Pullman Rake I am putting together but have been butting my head against a brick wall with one aspect

 

Regarding the use of Bar cars during their MK1 coach period

 

Given that Bachmann & Farish only produced the Hadrian Bar car and given that I can find no info on any other Mk1 bar car was the Hadrian the only Mk1 Bar Car Pullman had or did they have a number of Bar cars all called Hadrian?

 

I am assuming they would have more than one service on the tracks at any one time needing a Bar Car, or is that assumption incorrect?

 

If they had other Bar cars in the Mk1 period what were they called.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

Attached is a copy of the relevant section from Keith Parkin's book. Hope it helps but seems to me that the word "uniquely" answers your question!

[Steamport Southport]

Yes there was only one of them built of this type. There were other bar cars though such as M1883. They were also the Bulleid Tavern Cars built to look like pubs as well as some others from pre nationalisation. Usually though they would just use a Buffet Car.

 

Some information on them here.

 

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_pullman.html

 

http://www.eastbank.org.uk/br_coaches.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green]

It was found that great confusion was caused having a single Bar Car called 'Hadrian' when all others were called 'Bruce'.

[Bomag]

7 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Hi

 

I am assuming they would have more than one service on the tracks at any one time needing a Bar Car, or is that assumption incorrect?

 

If they had other Bar cars in the Mk1 period what were they called.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

 

The Hadrian bar (354) was normally in the Tyne Tees Pullman (as may be expected from the wall reference). I am not certain if this was a reflection of drinking habits of Geordies over those from Gods Own Country or that normal dining service for the whole train apparently took you nearly to Wakefield and that there was not time to slope down to the bar car for a round.

[Gwiwer]

The Tyne-Tees Pullman (Newcastle - Kings Cross and back) was a single train set meaning the unique Hadrian Bar car 354 could be used for the service other than when a maintenance spare was required. 

 

Once on the LMR two train sets were required for the overnight service.  One use M354E branded Nighcap Bar but referred to still as the Hadrian Bar. The other IIRC used a totally different vehicle also branded Nightcap Bar as that name was also used in the marketing literature for the precursors to our current overnight lounge cars.

[Paul80]

16 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

It was found that great confusion was caused having a single Bar Car called 'Hadrian' when all others were called 'Bruce'.

I can't find any reference to Bar Cars being called "Bruce" got any links?

[Wickham Green]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruces_sketch

[G-BOAF]

Does anyone know of pictures of the interior of Hadrian Bar (historically or present day)? It seems to be rarely photographed even in preservation.

Also how extensive was the 'pantry' area - going from the Bachmann model there is a large kitchen fan on the roof, but I can't find any details of what equipment there was inside the small (lavatory sized?) compartment. Stove top? Small oven? Grill? Hot water heater?

What sort of foods would have been served from the bar counter, either in Tees Tyne Pullman or Nightcap Bar times?

 

EDIT: all I have found is one interior picture of part of the bar area from the 1960s reproduced in 'Coupe News'

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe034.pdf

 

I also note that Bachmann made a mistake on their model in having a full height window in the pantry on the bar, rather than the 3/4 size kitchen window present on the Bar. This is a shame and (aside from the weirdly joggled underframe ends) the largest error with the excellent Mk1 Pullman range.

Edited January 25, 2021 by G-BOAF

[Wickham Green too]

On 21/10/2019 at 22:57, Gwiwer said:

....... The other IIRC used a totally different vehicle also branded Nightcap Bar ..........

This was a 'K-type' car built as "Octavia" in 1925, renamed "Diamond" in 1929 after a period of service sur le continong and rebuilt as "Trianon" for the Golden Arrow in 1946. She was normally passed-over in favour of the other "Trianon" so was renamed "The New Century Bar"* - then returned cto "Diamond" in 1955 when she was also the "Daffodil Bar" for the South Wales Pullman and, finally, "The Nighcap Bar" as discussed in 1963. There's a lovely phot in Ford Vol.2 of the vehicle named "Diamond" at the waist, "The Daffodil Bar" on the panel behind the bar and "The Nightcap Bar" on roofboards .......................... poor old Octavia must've been turning in her grave by then !

* Hornby model

[robertcwp]

There was also the previous Hadrian Bar, which moved to the SR as a buffet car. 

 

Pullman-Buffet by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There was the Golden Arrow bar car which later became the 'other' Nightcap bar and carried blue/grey livery.

 

Here are two images of the Mark 1 Hadrian Bar early in its preservation days:

 

E354_Newport-1_30-1-82 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

E354_Newport-2_30-1-82 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Note that although marked first class here, in BR service, the seating was second class.

 

Edit: just found this photo of the other side.

 

Going back to the 1950s, as well as the previous Hadrian Bar in the Tees-Tyne Pullman, the two 1938 Flying Scotsman restaurant triplet sets used in The Northumbrian had a standing bar area added in 1957.

Edited January 25, 2021 by robertcwp
Add a link.

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

 

Note that although marked first class here, in BR service, the seating was second class.

 

 

 

I thought it was Pullman Second Class, which equated to 'normal' first class; a number of Second Class Mk1 Pullmans were 'downgraded' to Mk1 FOs, so I would have thought Hadrian Bar would have been similarly treated. Unless the seating side was different yet again to the Pullman Parlour Seconds (I believe today it is loose lounge seating so not comparable).

[robertcwp]

8 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

I thought it was Pullman Second Class, which equated to 'normal' first class; a number of Second Class Mk1 Pullmans were 'downgraded' to Mk1 FOs, so I would have thought Hadrian Bar would have been similarly treated. Unless the seating side was different yet again to the Pullman Parlour Seconds (I believe today it is loose lounge seating so not comparable).

Yes, it was Pullman second class.