A couple of questions

[Neptis]

Ok im a compleat novice at this.

 

im starting a small shelf  layoit with my dad. And he asked me to desine the layoit myself . As he thought i was mutch. Eter at that sort of thing as him (shure with art yes) but layouts. Im am not to shure. Its my first time doing it. So i hope you lot could tell me how it looks.   Its just a plan veiw /top down.     Desi e . As i do t know of anny spfware bar the art aps i use that could help me .      So i will post it here

 

its a oo gauge desine. And i alredy have the buildings. The houses and signal box built from kits. The shop i built from spares from the two kits and gritstone card (my first time building kits and doing a building from scratch.

 

annyway i thought i would post the desi e here and see what you think. Anny adivice would be apresheated. At most its 3 carages including the engin itself that we will use

[OhOh]

Others here are much better informed than me when it comes to designing an effective track layout, so I won't comment on that.

 

But for software, I suggest you look at Anyrail which is free and easy to use.

[kevinlms]

9 hours ago, Neptis said:

Ok im a compleat novice at this.

 

im starting a small shelf  layoit with my dad. And he asked me to desine the layoit myself . As he thought i was mutch. Eter at that sort of thing as him (shure with art yes) but layouts. Im am not to shure. Its my first time doing it. So i hope you lot could tell me how it looks.   Its just a plan veiw /top down.     Desi e . As i do t know of anny spfware bar the art aps i use that could help me .      So i will post it here

 

its a oo gauge desine. And i alredy have the buildings. The houses and signal box built from kits. The shop i built from spares from the two kits and gritstone card (my first time building kits and doing a building from scratch.

 

annyway i thought i would post the desi e here and see what you think. Anny adivice would be apresheated. At most its 3 carages including the engin itself that we will use

What type of trains do you intend to run?

 

It looks reasonable for a first effort.

[Aire Head]

What size area do you have for the layout Inc fiddle yard? Do you have a period/location you wish to depict?

[Tallpaul69]

Where do the two tracks to the right go?

[Neptis]

4 hours ago, OhOh said:

Others here are much better informed than me when it comes to designing an effective track layout, so I won't comment on that.

 

But for software, I suggest you look at Anyrail which is free and easy to use.

Thanks for that. I had seen that software. But have not downloaded yet. Will look into it more

 

4 hours ago, kevinlms said:

What type of trains do you intend to run?

 

It looks reasonable for a first effort.

According to my dad it will be analog and oo in scale

 

3 hours ago, Aire Head said:

What size area do you have for the layout Inc fiddle yard? Do you have a period/location you wish to depict?

We have not worked all that out just yet. This is just a first draft remember. Will get back to you with that

 

1 hour ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Where do the two tracks to the right go?

 Thats ment to go of the layout but i can stop it before that

[F-UnitMad]

17 minutes ago, Neptis said:

What size area do you have for the layout Inc fiddle yard?

 

18 minutes ago, Neptis said:

We have not worked all that out just yet. This is just a first draft remember.

There is no point at all in designing trackplans before you know the space you will have available.

[Neptis]

5 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

 

There is no point at all in designing trackplans before you know the space you will have available.

 

5 hours ago, AlexHolt said:

 

Not much point in designing a track plan when you don't know the amount of space you have to work with. Once you know the measurements its easier as you know what you can actually fit in to the space effectively. 

 

 

Sorry guys.  Just found the sizes in my notes . It is going to. Be 2 foot wide by 8 foot in lenth

[gobbler]

Have a look at this, not only will it inspire you, but will give you a good idea what can fit into certain spaces.

 

CJ freezer / Peco publications 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Railway-Modeller-Plans-Small-Locations/dp/0900586257

 

This is the book I'd suggest, but its only a few quid, do not pay the £39.99 it displays, i just got that to show you, look on ebay.

Cheers

 

Scott

Edited October 24, 2019 by gobbler

[imt]

I do hope all the answers haven't put you off!  They are all correct - it must just come as a bit of a shock that what you thought you might fit in, you cannot.

 

I would agree that looking at some plan books would help.  I would advise against CJF's books - not because they are not good, but because they use track geometries that are no longer available.  You need maybe an extra 10% in size all round to use modern pre-built points.  There are lots of other books.  I expect you do not want to spend a lot of money so pick up some "magazine" style books.  The Publishers of Model Rail and British Railway Modeller have produced "how to" books for a few quid which go through how to plan, tools needed, how to build etc.

 

ALL railway modelling is compromise, most stations are long and thin (unless you are thinking of Kings Coss or Waterloo!) and so you have to shorten features to fit into the space available.  A design book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Designing-Layout-Building-Model-Railway/dp/1874103399 has some thoughts on that process.

 

You have the worst problem of all - too little space, and don't think you can change that by adding inches to the width - you then get problems of not being able to reach to the back of your layout (unless you have access all round?).  If you want a station you probably need 9 or 10 feet in length with a fiddle yard on the end.  My layout is 11'6 long with a further 6'6 fiddle yard at right angles on the end.  I can run 4 coach trains, thats all (loco at the "front"  which pulled the train in 4 Mk1 coaches and and a loco at the back to remove the empty stock).  It would fit into a straight 15' if I had the room (which I don't) so there has to be a right angle bend which adds a "wasted" 2'6 .

 

So unless you want a "shunting plank" layout you will need a fiddle yard to drive trains from/into and that will eat into your 8'.  There are fun compromises.  You can just model the platform head end of the layout - so you see maybe a loco and one or two coaches.  There is an example on RMWeb but I cannot remember it's name.

 

Keep thinking and asking and don't get put off.  There is plenty of help here, but looking at the odd plan book first may help you cut down the questions/time taken to get to your final layout.

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/brm/store/reader-offers/the-brm-guide-to-trackplans-layout-design-volume-3-first-edition/

https://magsdirect.co.uk/magazine/how-to-build-a-model-railway-volume-6/

 

In both look also for "back copies" since the preceding volumes are just as helpful.

Edited October 24, 2019 by imt
add web links

[OhOh]

Maybe before you start spending on books, have a look at this video and some of the others on that site. These guys have built quite a few smallish layouts so you'll get a clearer idea of what might fit in your space.

 

This one as well.

Edited October 24, 2019 by OhOh
added2nd link

[imt]

24 minutes ago, OhOh said:

Maybe before you start spending on books, have a look at this video and some of the others on that site. These guys have built quite a few smallish layouts so you'll get a clearer idea of what might fit in your space.

 

Another very good idea.  Those videos may well get you started on something smaller than 8' which you can "cut your teeth on".  As was being demonstrtaed, one building can easily be moved to another layout etc.  The basic ideas are all there, and the idea of having just a small platform for passengers - because "they came along later".

 

For my first layout I used 10mm black A1 size foamboard (it comes in lots of sizes and thicknesses) which I braced underneath with other foamboard cross members.  It's very light and easy to use on the dining table and to stand in the corner when you need the room.  You do need to be careful not to put too much pressure on it because you can push through it.  6' by 18" gave quite a good layout.  The funny thing in the bottom right corner is a "cassette" I made to load up with stock and put on/take off the layout (different idea to a "fiddle yard" and smaller).  The second photo shows the dockside I built under construction.

 

You CAN make fun layouts in little space!  See https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/151-boxfiles-micro-layouts-dioramas/

 

Have fun.....

[imt]

I have just seen in another thread under this topic "A snippet of Victorian London" a link as follows http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-103-november-2010/

 

If you go there and then to the bottom of that page under a title "WANT TO FEATURE HIGH-SPEED LOCOS AND GLITZY EXPRESSES?" you will see a beautiful "bitsa" idea (as in bitsa station - ho, ho).

 

As you can see there is a surprising amount of operational potential.  How you organise the right hand side - the feeder siding(s) or fiddle yard - is not explained.  There are plenty of ways to do it though.

Edited October 24, 2019 by imt

[Neptis]

Thanks guys. Imight have got the size wrong wil mesher it  when i get back home from my brothers. 

Could you also remind meof the diferent gauge sizesfrom bigest to smallest i feel i might have got that wrong.

 

me and my dad are mire the trial and error type . Me espeshaly. Im not overly font of tutorial. As quite often thay teach you a longer method that is nessisery  (10 years of folowing graphic design  tuts and vareus tought me this) i. The end i usuly find a faster and easyer way.

 

but all the info you guys or girls ( you never know online) have given me will help

 

so thanks 

[imt]

The most popular are:

 

O gauge 7mm foot scale.  BIG but lovely.  You wouldn't get much in 8' by 2'!  

00 gauge 4mm foot scale.  The most used(?) and better supplied "ready to run" scale and the one I think we were all talking about.

N gauge 2mm foot scale. A popular but not as well supplied (maybe a matter of opinion that?) scale.  You could get a roundy roundy layout in 8' by 2' (just!).  I am of an age where just seeing and handling such small things is difficult.  They are not particularly fragile just small.

 

I am scrabbling for a photo I have somewhere which compares the three.  Simply put your average Bo-Bo diesel is (very roughly) in 00 6.5" long 1.75" wide and 2" high.  Double that for O and halve it for N (again roughly speaking).  In 00 a train of a nain line loco and 4 carriages is something like 4'6" long.

 

HTH

Edited October 25, 2019 by imt

[Zomboid]

Most people on this forum model UK railways - but if you're not then you've also got HO (1:87, 3.5mm/ft), which isn't much different from OO, but for European trains at least you might be able to squeeze a little more into the space. (American trains are so much bigger than European ones in general that the a HO model of one is a similar size to a OO model of a British train)

 

I think the scale ratio is slightly different for foreign N scale, too.

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Most people on this forum model UK railways - but if you're not then you've also got HO (1:87, 3.5mm/ft), which isn't much different from OO, but for European trains at least you might be able to squeeze a little more into the space. (American trains are so much bigger than European ones in general that the a HO model of one is a similar size to a OO model of a British train)

 

I think the scale ratio is slightly different for foreign N scale, too.

HO won't save you as much space as you would think as continental stock tends to be larger than British. Certainly not enough of a difference to make a 3 coach and locomotive less than 4' (most people when they say coaches mean British MK1 size)

[Neptis]

Definetly oo scale then. And it was 2 coches and the engine my dad was planning

[imt]

14 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

Budget Model Railways on YouTube

 

Good idea, and OhOh had already suggested that, but I heard a little resistance from the OP.  I think you are right and something smaller to cut the teeth on would be better.

[Aire Head]

2 Coaches +Loco is doable in 8 foot.

 

Do you have an area or era You are looking for?

[Neptis]

9 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

2 Coaches +Loco is doable in 8 foot.

 

Do you have an area or era You are looking for?

Nope era in particular . Its going to be our own fictional town

 

the shop, streats, station a d that will have the names of famaly members. The town will be named after the famaly name

3 hours ago, imt said:

 

Good idea, and OhOh had already suggested that, but I heard a little resistance from the OP.  I think you are right and something smaller to cut the teeth on would be better.

Thair is a reson thair may have seemed some resistance. But its not for public chat . Also so e things i type may seem one way. But be ment anuther. But be asured thair was no real resistance . My apologies if it was taken that way. I am just someone that dislike tutoreals. And lerns best by makeing and fixing mistakes.

[DCB]

On 23/10/2019 at 03:10, Neptis said:

Ok im a compleat novice at this.

 

im starting a small shelf  layoit with my dad. And he asked me to desine the layoit myself . As he thought i was mutch. Eter at that sort of thing as him (shure with art yes) but layouts. Im am not to shure. Its my first time doing it. So i hope you lot could tell me how it looks.   Its just a plan veiw /top down.     Desi e . As i do t know of anny spfware bar the art aps i use that could help me .      So i will post it here

 

its a oo gauge desine. And i alredy have the buildings. The houses and signal box built from kits. The shop i built from spares from the two kits and gritstone card (my first time building kits and doing a building from scratch.

 

annyway i thought i would post the desi e here and see what you think. Anny adivice would be apresheated. At most its 3 carages including the engin itself that we will use

I recken yew shood downlode Grammerly asa fist meuve.

The layout concept doesn't work regardless of scale or room available. Forget Computers get an A4 pad and draw your area in 1:12 scale 1 in to 1 ft or 1:10  1mm = 1cm,  In 00  Points are about 7.5in long or 20cm and coaches and big locos 12in or 30cm.  So a pair of points is 15" long and a loco 12 " so you need 27"  from the end of the line before a big loco can "Run Round" to get to the other end of its train, ready to return. say 24" for a small one so that's 48" plus 12/24/36 in for 1/2/3 coach trains so thats 84 in / 7ft  already for your 3 coach train.  Then you need somewhere for the train to go, hidden sidings etc,  and thats 4ft min so you are up to 11 ft already.  Your plan based on the platform being 3ft is 12 feet long so a conventional BLT is doable.  The bottom siding is just about inaccessible .   Maybe get some Peco Trackplans books for inspiration, 60 plans for small railways is good, esp Minories, but most doable trackplans for small spaces have been done to death.

Anyrail etc is a useful intermediate step between concept on the back of a fag packet and building the layout, it is seldom possible to build exactly what you design on screen and tweaking things can improve the appearance so I don't get too hung up on it.     As a truly original track plan is unlikely in ord.er to make a difference it comes down to scenics. and the stock you run.

[Neptis]

16 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

I recken yew shood downlode Grammerly asa fist meuve.

The layout concept doesn't work regardless of scale or room available. Forget Computers get an A4 pad and draw your area in 1:12 scale 1 in to 1 ft or 1:10  1mm = 1cm,  In 00  Points are about 7.5in long or 20cm and coaches and big locos 12in or 30cm.  So a pair of points is 15" long and a loco 12 " so you need 27"  from the end of the line before a big loco can "Run Round" to get to the other end of its train, ready to return. say 24" for a small one so that's 48" plus 12/24/36 in for 1/2/3 coach trains so thats 84 in / 7ft  already for your 3 coach train.  Then you need somewhere for the train to go, hidden sidings etc,  and thats 4ft min so you are up to 11 ft already.  Your plan based on the platform being 3ft is 12 feet long so a conventional BLT is doable.  The bottom siding is just about inaccessible .   Maybe get some Peco Trackplans books for inspiration, 60 plans for small railways is good, esp Minories, but most doable trackplans for small spaces have been done to death.

Anyrail etc is a useful intermediate step between concept on the back of a fag packet and building the layout, it is seldom possible to build exactly what you design on screen and tweaking things can improve the appearance so I don't get too hung up on it.     As a truly original track plan is unlikely in ord.er to make a difference it comes down to scenics. and the stock you run.

Thank you. I am despite how it seems overwhelmed by the responses here. But i will take all into consideration. And true things never go the way you want. I need to be reminded of that all the time with evrything. Bar my artwork whitch is always theway i plan it ( i draw mandalas for folk on pigment to color in. Funny thing is i dont have the patience to color them mysef)

[The Johnster]

As you don't have a lot of space to play with, it will help if you choose smaller prototypes, and as a very general rule, this means older period models.  Modern trains are very long, except perhaps for Pacers, goods wagons are long wheelbase rigid, which won't like sharp curves, or bogie, and even 1950s mk1 coaches are 64'.  But many coach designs from before WW2 were 57' and less, so a two coach train hauled by an 0-6-0 steam tank engine, which is perfectly realistic, looks a little less cramped than a couple of 64' mk1s and a tender loco.  2 coaches are roughly equal to 6 10' wheelbase wagons, but this means 5 in practice because you've got to allow for the brake van.  

 

The older you make your prototype, the shorter the locos and coaches; Hatton's of Liverpool are bringing out some 4 and 6 wheel Victorian coaches that will enable you to increase your train to 3  coaches within the same overall length, and a small loco like the Hatton's P class or Hornby's Terrier will help as well.  If you can progress to kit building Ratio make some GW 4 wheelers, but these are really designed for curves and points above 4th radius, and you need to use no.1 or 2 setrack.  There are also the Hornby Railroad 4 wheelers, which are very short but sadly not a particularly good model of anything; I can't in all honesty recommend them.

 

Try to keep the track plan simple.  It's tempting to fill as much of your space with track as possible, but the layout will look cramped (it is, of course, but you want to create the illusion that it isn't), and a run around loop with sidings in both directions off it will provide you with plenty of shunting fun!  Some lengths of flexible track can be used to introduce a bit of gentle curvature which will prevent the rather rigid and stiff look of parallel straight tracks.  Don't, whatever you do, make the mistake of using flexible track to make sharper curves to save space; it isn't designed for that and you will pull it out of gauge...

 

The mandalas have already taught you the skills you need for precise and accurate planning, but I have never, in 6 decades of modelling, been able to build a layout exactly to the plan, so leave yourself a bit of 'wobble room' with the measurements rather than pushing things to the absolute limit.  It might be an idea, once you have finished the baseboards, to make up card cutout dummy track pieces that you can shuffle around the board trying out different plans until you have something that is workable, and that you are content with.  Drawing the mandalas shows that you have plenty of patience and I'm sure that you could easily colour them in if you wanted to.

 

Welcome to the madness, I mean hobby, by the way.  Let us know how you are getting on, take your time, and make sure you lay the track perfectly level and with smooth joins, and fix it down before it has time to move out of alignments.  Plenty advice on this site, some of it contradictory, so you can cherry pick what suits your needs best.  Good luck and have fun!