Info on China clay piers at Fowey

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Ah yes, a copyright issue. Like the ones already scanned and posted here?

Not quite the same as the layout plans in the East Cornwall book are all new or revised artwork published this year (even the 1st edition published as recently as 1982) and they work is clearly marked as the copyright of the author,  If anyone is really interested in the detail all they need to do is follow the Lightmoor Press link I posted above and order a copy for themselves, Tony Cooke's stuff is deeply and diligently researched and this series is well worth the money.

[DavidMatthewson]

A bit more R & D...

 

I found this pic on the 'net, so again, not my (c) and I could not find any attribution.

 

It's interesting for several reasons. First it's the only one I've seen from this point of view, and shows a great image of the china clay loader, tracks, hoppers and so on. Even better, whilst undated, if the ship tied up to the jetty is the 'Crandon' as marked on the pic, then we can date the photo fairly precisely, as being between 1927 and 1933. That's because she started life as the 'Gardenia' in 1914 on the Tyne and then was regularly sold on and renamed, in 1927 being sold to Crandon Shipping in Cardiff who renamed her 'Crandon' and then sold her in 1933 when she was again renamed 'David Dawson'.

 

See these links for details:

 

http://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/G-Ships/gardenia1914.html

https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?207861

http://mariners-list.com/site_pages.php?section=Shipping+Companies&category=English&page_name=Charlton+Steam+Ship+Co

 

Also, as the links give the dimensions - she was 100m long - scaling the jetty etc becomes possible.

 

In terms of operation, the second marked up photo shows a line of trucks just about to be shunted one by one over the tippers at point 'A'. The wagons are end tippers and the clay falls under the tracks onto a conveyor belt which then lifts it up to the top of the loader, then a second short belt moves it onto a third belt which is parallel to the jetty edge. Finally, a movable short belt carries the clay up over the jetty side and into the vessel holds. Note that this belt can traverse almost the entire length of the jetty to reach any hold on a moored ship. All designed and built by the GWR!

 

If anyone else has any more information I'd love to hear about ti - thanks.

 

[Stoker]

Your flow diagram is correct. This loading plant was constructed in the early 20s. There were other conveyor belt loaders on the jetties at this time, but these were static and required the ship to be warped along the jetty to fill the holds. This arrangement was kept until about 1970 or so when the large traversing loader was made the main unloading point for wagons, and conveyor belts constructed to feed the other jetties, as well as a large bulk store. I believe this was around the time the wagon traverser was put in.

I've attached some more photos from the 1920 timeframe to give you some idea of the arrangement.





There are drawings for some if not all of these structures. These were originally held by the ECC office, and I believe later donated to Wheal Martyn/China Clay History Society. They may now be in the Kresen Kernow archives, or in the separate CCHS archives which sadly are not open to the public. I'd advise arranging to meet the relevant archivists and historians in person, as I've had no luck getting them to respond to emails. Kresen Kernow does, I believe, have a searchable archive list, so you'll be able to see whether they hold anything you might want to look at.

[DavidMatthewson]

Many thanks for the photos and additional information. The first of your pics.. the one taken from the North end of the loader_is especially useful as it clearly shows that the entire structure seems to be on raised girders.

 

Very useful.. Thanks

 

[Stoker]

38 minutes ago, DavidMatthewson said:

Many thanks for the photos and additional information. The first of your pics.. the one taken from the North end of the loader_is especially useful as it clearly shows that the entire structure seems to be on raised girders.

 

Very useful.. Thanks

 

The whole loader is actually on a jetty somewhat parallel with the shore. If you look to the right of it you can see the water. This was later filled in, I think coinciding with the closure of the Fowey-Par line, and concentration of unloading at No 8 jetty. Interestingly enough, a large part of the original loader still remains in use today, almost 100 years old now!

There's more information on the history of the harbour here:
https://www.foweyharbourhistory.com/uploads/2/0/9/0/20909932/a_brief_history_of_fowey_harbour_chapter_1.pdf

Edited December 16, 2019 by Stoker

[DavidMatthewson]

20 hours ago, Stoker said:

There's more information on the history of the harbour here:
https://www.foweyharbourhistory.com/uploads/2/0/9/0/20909932/a_brief_history_of_fowey_harbour_chapter_1.pdf

 

Thanks for the information .. the pdf is especially interesting as it has a waterside shot of the loader which I"ve never seen before.

 

Great stuff!!

[DavidMatthewson]

Some stills from a 1960s (?) 8mm cine film found in the BFI archives.  ' On the water at Fowey' https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-on-the-water-at-fowey-1960-online

Edited December 25, 2019 by DavidMatthewson

[Stoker]

Yep from 1920s to 1960s not much changed. Through the 70s the industry changed so much that by the end of the decade it was beyond recognition for the old boys. Fowey included.

[DavidMatthewson]

So true - I think some of the Fowey GWR loader is still extant and even in use, but as for the rest, all changed or gone.. ;{

[KeithMacdonald]

10 minutes ago, DavidMatthewson said:

but as for the rest, all changed or gone.. ;{

 

Even Chuffer's Restaurant (beside what used to be the Fowey Station site) is, alas, no more.

 

This was, allegedly, the last known refuge of Chuffer Dandridge. Infamously, the resting (and perpetually impecunious) Shakespearean actor-manager who used to appear on Terry Wogan's breakfast broadcasts on Radio Two. With increasingly desperate attempts to find paying work.

 

[Stoker]

4 hours ago, DavidMatthewson said:

So true - I think some of the Fowey GWR loader is still extant and even in use, but as for the rest, all changed or gone.. ;{

Yep no 8 jetty loader is still extant, over the years been added to and modified a little bit. Knocking on 100 years old now!

[Stoker]

Here are some photos I took around no 8 jetty in 2004. You can clearly see the old GWR loader and how it's been added to over the years. The red brick building is the old generating station, which used to receive coal by rail. Maurice Dart told me that the ramp up to it was incredibly steep, and they always had problems getting trains up it.

[pb_devon]

And do I spot Maurice in the group?!

[DavidMatthewson]

16 hours ago, Stoker said:

"Here are some photos I took around no 8 jetty in 2004. You can clearly see the old GWR loader and how it's been added to over the years. The red brick building is the old generating station, which used to receive coal by rail. Maurice Dart told me that the ramp up to it was incredibly steep, and they always had problems getting trains up it."

 

Fantastic photos - many many thanks - great to see details of the steelwork and the ship loader close up. I'd always assumed it ran on rails but now I know!

 

[Stoker]

2 hours ago, pb_devon said:

And do I spot Maurice in the group?!

 

Yep that's Maurice. I think we wound up taking him to the William Cookworthy pub after this for some lunch.

[pb_devon]

On 27/12/2019 at 16:33, Stoker said:

 

Yep that's Maurice. I think we wound up taking him to the William Cookworthy pub after this for some lunch.

 

On 27/12/2019 at 16:33, Stoker said:

 

Yep that's Maurice. I think we wound up taking him to the William Cookworthy pub after this for some lunch.

Hmmn, I’ve been to lunch in a pub with him, and left in a right state!!

[Stoker]

On 28/12/2019 at 14:13, pb_devon said:

 

Hmmn, I’ve been to lunch in a pub with him, and left in a right state!!

Was he buying you pints of strong cider, by any chance? That's how he always got me hammered. Always thought he was going to the bar to get himself one, then he'd come back with two and put one on my beermat... felt rude to just leave it. Next thing you know you're on your way to the toilets, run your hand through your hair and realise you can no longer feel your scalp!!

[DavidMatthewson]

Following on from the jetties at Fowey, I'm now looking at the GWR electricity power station that was slightly nearer to Fowey village.

 

There are not many photographs I can find and no drawings at all. The main building - which still exists but is inside the china clay company land, is about 30m x 10m x 10m and seems to be brick built. The chimney has long gone. I'm interested in how the chimney & boiler(s) connected to what I assume were turbines in the main power hall. Does anyone have any more images  or even images of other GWR generating stations of a similar type? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Photos are (c) of the original owners and used here for research purposes only. They came from the 'net - if anyone wants credits or for them to be removed pls just ask.

 

Thanks

Edited November 12, 2020 by DavidMatthewson

[Stoker]

So far as I'm aware the old powerhouse didn't have turbines, it had conventional steam engines. Maurice Dart gave me a lot of information on the powerhouse during our visit in 2004, most of which I promptly forgot! But IIRC the steam rising from behind is from the condenser, and the water tower in front of the building contains condensate to feed the boilers of which I think there were two of the Lancashire variety.

Also just FYI copyright doesn't prevent photographs being used in ways that conform to "fair use", such as educational and research purposes. You do not need permission or a license to display copyrighted work online if it counts as fair use, which this would do.

[Hal Nail]

5 hours ago, Stoker said:

Also just FYI copyright doesn't prevent photographs being used in ways that conform to "fair use", such as educational and research purposes. You do not need permission or a license to display copyrighted work online if it counts as fair use, which this would do.

Dont want to stray off topic but this is the first line from the official govt advice. (nb. copywrite is automatic, its doesn't have to be stated).

 

Copyright in images and photographs

The basics

Photographs illustrations and other images will generally be protected by copyright as artistic works. This means that a user will usually need the permission of the copyright owner(s) if they want to perform certain acts, such as copying the image or sharing it on the internet.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Hal Nail

[DavidMatthewson]

8 hours ago, Stoker said:

So far as I'm aware the old powerhouse didn't have turbines, it had conventional steam engines. Maurice Dart gave me a lot of information on the powerhouse during our visit in 2004, most of which I promptly forgot! But IIRC the steam rising from behind is from the condenser, and the water tower in front of the building contains condensate to feed the boilers of which I think there were two of the Lancashire variety.

Many thanks for that. So from the photos it seems the chimney was located about 10m seaward from the generating station itself. Would the boilers be in the bunker like base of the chimney or the main powerhouse - in either case, how were they connected to each other? All help very much appreciated.

Edited November 14, 2020 by DavidMatthewson
typo

[DavidMatthewson]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Dont want to stray off topic but this is the first line from the official govt advice. (nb. copywrite is automatic, its doesn't have to be stated).

 

Copyright in images and photographs

The basics

Photographs illustrations and other images will generally be protected by copyright as artistic works. This means that a user will usually need the permission of the copyright owner(s) if they want to perform certain acts, such as copying the image or sharing it on the internet.

 

 

Nightmare isn't it? We all want to stay within the law - for many reasons - and yet imagery is an essential part of our research. UK advice also says:

"UK copyright law permits you to 'quote' from copyright material, including images, providing your use is 'fair dealing'.  Essentially, this means your copy must have no impact on the market for the original image (e.g. a lower resolution, or a cropped version), and you must credit the rights-holder."  https://subjectguides.york.ac.uk/copyright/images

 

Hence I usually try to 'play fair & safe'... as I say, nightmare!!

[Stoker]

Yeah "play fair and safe" is a good mantra. As far as I know, no case precedent exists for prosecuting a lack of attribution on an otherwise fair use of a copyrighted work, but it's no skin off anyone's nose to give credit where it's due. In reality, I don't think any "violation" on this forum would ever get past the takedown-notice stage since we have quite proactive moderators.
 

11 hours ago, DavidMatthewson said:

Many thanks for that. So from the photos it seems the chimney was located about 10m seaward from the generating station itself. Would the boilers be in the bunker like base of the chimney or the main powerhouse - in either case, how were they connected to each other? All help very much appreciated.

The boilers were in the building, and a flue ran underground to the base of the chimney. The building was split into two rooms, boilers in the room closest to the chimney, steam engines in the other. If you look at the photos you can see that there is a parapet in the middle of the roof which marks the point of the partition wall.

I'll ask around and see if anyone I know has any more information about it.

Oh, and here's a couple more photos you might find interesting:

 

[Hal Nail]

I asked elsewhere but drew a blank why the older GWR china clay wagons had tie bars, given they were unfitted. My guess was perhaps to counter stresses on the underframe from the end tipper - good shot of that in the first pic (albeit a BR built wagon).

[DavidMatthewson]

6 hours ago, Stoker said:

Yeah "play fair and safe" is a good mantra. As far as I know, no case precedent exists for prosecuting a lack of attribution on an otherwise fair use of a copyrighted work, but it's no skin off anyone's nose to give credit where it's due. In reality, I don't think any "violation" on this forum would ever get past the takedown-notice stage since we have quite proactive moderators.

 

The boilers were in the building, and a flue ran underground to the base of the chimney. The building was split into two rooms, boilers in the room closest to the chimney, steam engines in the other. If you look at the photos you can see that there is a parapet in the middle of the roof which marks the point of the partition wall.

I'll ask around and see if anyone I know has any more information about it.

Oh, and here's a couple more photos you might find interesting:
 

Oh fabulous photos, very many thanks. I guess that's Jetty #8 under construction and unusual to see a photo taken from landside, so very much appreciated.

 

Re (c) - agreed.. let's move on! ;}

 

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Edited November 15, 2020 by DavidMatthewson
typo