Digikeijs DR4088LN - Issue

[model-trains]

Hi guys

 

I have Just starting testing my first layout board of four, using iTrain software, DR5000 Control Centre and DR4088LN feed back units.

 

First iTrain.

All the routes on this board work fine, when starting a loco the next block shows yellow as it should and follows on around the full layout on screen.

 

To simulate train running with the software I click each feedback on route, each in turn following the route, it all works fine.

 

On the layout - following movement of loco on screen

The loco is in the correct block, the block shows occupied/protected, the feedback is Red, OK so far.

 

I click the green circle with white triangle to start the loco, it runs in the correct direction. The next block is yellow ready.

 

As the loco runs into and through

- the second block the Red feedback turns off as it should

- the feedback in the next block doesn't turn red???

 

Suggestions welcome please.

 

 

[BoD]

I don’t know your particular software or hardware (good start) but I would be methodical.  
 

if you just put a loco on the next block does the program show the block as occupied?  Can you read that sensor with your hardware to check that it is sensing occupied?  If it is not sensing is it the wiring? Possibly rewire/swap  the second block with the first and see if it shows up there in case it is a duff channel on the feedback unit.  Has it been addressed correctly in the block in the software?
If it is sensing correctly, how did you  set up routes from one block to the next in your particular software? Is that all correct and is the sensor correctly addressed and allocated, although if it works in simulation mode this sounds less likely the cause.
 

I’m sure if there is something specific to your hardware/software setup  someone will be aware of it and help you but in the first instance the above might be a starting point.

Edited October 24, 2019 by BoD

[WIMorrison]

Sounds to me like the third feedback in the route isn’t connected - or if it is it doesn’t have the correct number assigned either to the feedback or within the block.

 

place a loco on it and see which feedback lights up, then you will know what to correct

 

easier to confirm you have it lol correct in your dr5000 and once it is working correctly on that apply the same logic to correct iTrain 

[model-trains]

Thanks for your suggestions guys

 

Sorry for the delay replying.

 

Iain I think you might have hit the nail on the head, I was having other issues and stripped out all centre sidings and started again, that could be the issue, I will get to it and check and reply to confirm when I have done so.

 

Thanks again

[model-trains]

I have carried out checks at all stages

 

1x IRJ was missing - corrected

All blocks, IRJ's and Feedbacks - correctly positioned

There are 23 feedbacks on this 1st board, 4 are working correctly.

 

The next stage is to check all others one by one, I pretty sure they are all addressed correctly now. 

 

Question at this stage - some of the blocks and some of the feedbacks on the block flash as the loco runs on them, but don't stay lit, would you say it is possibly poor connections, though they seem fine, or something else?

 

[BoD]

How long, physically, are the sections being read by rhe sensor/

Edited October 27, 2019 by BoD

[WIMorrison]

If the indicator is not fully lit all the time the train is in the section then you either have dirty rails or bad contacts somewhere.

 

Within iTrain you can reduce the impacts of this slightly by setting the feedback switch off delay to between 100 and 500ms - but not greater than 500ms. The feedback switch on delay should be between 0 and 50ms, 10ms is a good number. You can find these setting in Edit, Interfaces or Ctrl+f6

Edited October 27, 2019 by WIMorrison

[model-trains]

2 hours ago, BoD said:

How long, physically, are the sections being read by rhe sensor/

 

Hi

 

The wires are under a 120cm (4') wide board, so the maximum will be 90cm (3') most even less than that

 

[model-trains]

54 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

If the indicator is not fully lit all the time the train is in the section then you either have dirty rails or bad contacts somewhere.

 

Within iTrain you can reduce the impacts of this slightly by setting the feedback switch off delay to between 100 and 500ms - but not greater than 500ms. The feedback switch on delay should be between 0 and 50ms, 10ms is a good number. You can find these setting in Edit, Interfaces or Ctrl+f6

 

Hi

 

The loco runs on manual on all track no problem.

 

Tomorrow I will remove and refit all contacts to the DR5044LN's, the other ends are all soldered, no dry joints.

 

I will check them all 1 by 1 tomorrow, all feedbacks are mapped, above and below the board, each are temporary labelled so I know where they all come from and go to.

 

It must be the contacts, I cut with wire cutters, stripped and twisted in fingers.

 

I will also look at the setting s you mentioned also.

 

I know when I get this first board done I should be able to get on faster. 

 

Many thanks.

 

[WIMorrison]

Rereading this makes me wonder which 'feedbacks on the blocks' flash - are these the ones on he DR5000 feedback panel?  These are the ones that should be solid when the train is on the track. If they are flashing you have an issue, if they are solid then you are OK.

 

If they are flashing on the DR5000 then the other aspect that may be affecting the stability is your track voltage which may be too low. The track voltage is 1.5v below the input voltage and that should be set at 17.5-19v for the DR5000 on the SMPS supplied with the DR5000.

[model-trains]

Iain

 

1 - I am working on the feedbacks, I now have 5 out of 23 working, I am thinking it may be the wires that go into the DR4088LN, these have been in and out three times due to changing the layout, each time twisting the wires in my fingers. Possibly best if I tin them with a little solder then see if that solves the problem.

 

2 - The feedbacks and blocks are flashing on the mimic layout. For the ones that work so far, the block and one feedback light up on mimic plan, as the train progresses the feedback goes off and the other comes on. This is correct and shows it is working. But when it enters the next block, the block and feedback may be off and then occasionally as the loco moves they may flash. The correct feedback is flashing occasionally in the correct block, just not working as they should yet.

 

3 - I have opened the DR5000 control DigiCentral but am not sure where the voltage items you mention are?

 

 

[WIMorrison]

The DR5000 output is controlled by the SMPS that feeds it - there is a switch to change the voltage. This is described in the manual.

 

you MUST get the feedbacks working and showing correctly in the DR5000 app before you start trying to make them work in iTrain as I suggested earlier. At the moment you have too many potential failure areas to narrow down the actual cause.

 

use the manual to see how to view the feedback status in the DR5000 and once they are all fixed and working perfectly then start looking at iTrain

[model-trains]

Power is supplied to the DR5000 via mains plug, transformer and jack plug provided.

 

The power to the track and accessories buses is from the DR5000 via an NCE-EB1 circuit breaker.

 

I have searched SMPS and also feedback status in the DR5000 manual nothing comes up?

 

I clicked on the Power 19v DC   3.5A on the DR5000 it brings up the following.

 

Min 14v Dc  Max 9v DC

Min 3.5A

Main Track delivers Max 3A

Prog Track delivers Max 750mA

Output voltage of both is V9in) 1.1v

Loconet Delivers Max 750mA

 

That is all I ca find?

[WIMorrison]

look on the side of the power suppy - SMPS - Switched Mode Power Supply and check the voltage...

[model-trains]

3 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

look on the side of the power suppy - SMPS - Switched Mode Power Supply and check the voltage...

 

 

It is set at 15v

[WIMorrison]

Therefore change it as stated earlier 

[model-trains]

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Therefore change it as stated earlier 

 

 

Sorry Iain

 

I meant to say, 15v and set to 19v no difference.

 

Sorry for delay getting back to you, got the head flu back, everything streaming not just wifi

 

 

[model-trains]

With the voltage change now set at 19v there is no difference, the errors are still the same.

 

With some feedbacks working and some not I think the best bet is to check all wires into the feedback, either by stripping back to use new wire or tinning with a thin solder layer.

 

It will have to wait till I shrug the bug. Had to cancel meal out tonight for daughters birthday, hopefully back in a day or so.

 

Thanks for your help and patience.

 

[Phil S]

When you do that - you could experiment with swapping the wires at the 4088 end, away from the track, between known working and doubtful connections to see if it is the track-wire  or a module problem.

Don't forget the check the quality of the the Common rail feed through the module to ALL the rail sections - is that as good to each section ????

 

[model-trains]

Sorry for the delay in replying

 

First I had the bug, then my wife, then myself.

 

Since that I had virgin 200bbp installed and followed that with BT Mesh WholeHome system, every device had to be reset up.

 

Back to the trains, at last. Still on the first board, one frustration after another.

 

First question.

 

I will have 5 DR4088 feedbacks on the whole layout (when done)

 

At present they are connected from the DR5000 as follows

 

5th----4th----3rd----2nd----1st----DR5000

 

Because board one is the farthest distance from the DR5000 line, I have started with the 5th as 1-16 the 4th as 17-32, and will continue until #1 is 65-80. Could this cause an error?

 

I ask this now as I have mapped the working feedback and the none working ones

 

7 feedbacks on the 4th work, the 16 feedbacks on the 5th are giving all the issues, as there are none on 1st,2nd,3rd the 4th is the first with feedbacks connected.  I hope I am making sense.

 

Would they be better starting with the 5th DR4088 setting feedbacks as 80-65 and work backwards so that when finished they will all be in order. Or should it not matter?

 

I have changed the cable from the 4th to the 5th module, it made on difference. I will wait your kind replies before doing anymore.

 

The only other option would be to strip the 5th module out and put one of the previous free ones in it's place and see if it is the module causing the problems.

 

Some of the feedbacks on the 5th module appear to want to work but flash on then off, I have changed wires around but get the same result.

 

Very frustrating, I am getting so close the striping the feedbacks out and forgetting them, just run everything manually.

 

[WIMorrison]

Why not make it simple and simply use one DR4088LN numbered 1-16 (or even 65-80) and connect that to the DR5000 rather than creating unnecessary complications at this stage? Doing this means you are only working with one issue not several.  These units are normally 'bombproof' and have been used in their thousands worldwide faultlessly - which doesn't help you, serve to show that you must have created some complexity somewhere that doesn't need to exist and that is masking your issue.

 

Therefore you need to go back to first principles with one command station, on feedback decoder with 3 or 4 feedbacks connected and one loco - this only needs to be 1m long in total containing 3 or 4 feedbacks wired correctly, you should also build this simple proof of concept in iTrain and make it work and then, and only then, once you have this working then you can extend to the rest of the layout.  

 

Until you confident with these basic fundamentals then you are simply going to go from one frustration to the next

 

[model-trains]

Thanks Iain

 

That did pass through my mind as I finished today.

 

I also thought of getting a linger cable to go from the DR5000 (Board-3), round the bottom and connecting to the first module at board-1, so rather than going the way it is now and adding from modules 5 to 1, I will be going to module 1, then 2 etc up to 5. 

 

To do that I will need to get a longer cable first, then maybe change the current #1 and start afresh.

 

It will probably then work as follows... DR5000 to Feedback Module-1, Feedback Module-2, Reverse Loop Module-1, Reverse Loop Module-2, Feedback Module-3, Feedback Module-4, Feedback Module-5, Reverse loop module-3, reverse loop module-4 [End]

 

It just seems strange the first module it reeds from now, #4, works, but the last one, #5 doesn't. Maybe it doesn't like numbers in reverse order from DR5000?

 

If my cables are long enough, tomorrow I will by-pass module 4 make the 5th the first with feedback wires and see if that works, if it does it will answer the issue. I will leave feedback.

 

[WIMorrison]

Paul

 

diagrams would make your posts much easier to read - whilst in your minds eye you understand what you describe, for those of us at a distance the words are difficult to comprehend

 

I am suggesting that you connect one DR4088LN DIRECTLY to the DR5000 and that is all you have connected - the idea is to remove all potential issues and simplify the diagnosis other to those that can be dealt with.

 

also make sure that on the DR5000 only LocoNet has feedbacks assigned and that the S88 have been removed (by default the DR5000 uses the first 32(?) for S88 unless you remove them).

 

Then connect some feedbacks to some track and confirm that all is working - currently you have far to many variables to enable fault finding and you need to learn to walk with this before your run - presently you are trying to run a marathon and we know that isn’t feasible

 

as I have said many times - keep it simple until you are 100% confident then start getting more complicated.

Edited November 21, 2019 by WIMorrison

[model-trains]

I appreciate what you are saying and plan to do it that way, the reason I did the way I have was to keep cables between DR4088LN's as short as possible over all.

 

I have included images to show the cables and why I did it the way I did, it makes things much longer going round the perimeter of the room.

 

Refresh my memory what is the S88?

 

The rvised wa will allow me to add the DR4088LN's one by one.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by model-trains

[WIMorrison]

Paul

 

i am saying that you should connect from the dr5000 direct to the one DR4088 you have set up - remove the connections to ALL other devices.

 

look in your dr5000 program and set all the S88 to zero