Hornby class 47 with loose wiring

[KeithMacdonald]

Just bought this Hornby class 47 on eBay, and the seller said it was a runner.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-00-BR-Class-47-Diesel-Locomotive-No-D1663-Super-Detailed-/174059593337?nma=true&si=B3cnquTW1OJrUsfxDvHdIFVG%2F6M%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Sure enough, when I tried it (on a straight clean piece of track) it didn't run. After prising the power bogie away from the body shell, lo and behold, three loose green wires.

 

 

It looks like a bit of a bodge, with sellotape holding some of the wiring together.

 

Am I right in thinking the left-most green wire should go to the solder joint (the one with no wire), and the other loose ends should just be joined together?

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by KeithMacdonald
P.S. I had a reply from the seller, he suggested cleaning the wheels.

[Pete the Elaner]

It looks like you have at least a broken wire & a missing brush.

 

It looks like it may have had a DCC decoder in the past which has been ripped out rather than removed.

If you run it on DC, one side of the motor should be connected to pickups from 1 side of the loco & the other should pick up from the other side. On chassis such as this, they typically pic up from the left rail on 1 bogie & from the right rail on the other,  which is why a wire is passed through the loco.

The pickup from the local bogie should connect to the end with the coupling (left in the photo), but it looks like it goes into the body & re-appears again. I would be concerned that this is not the same wire. This is also the motor connection which looks like it has no brush.

The other motor connection should indeed connect to a pickup on the other bogie. There are 3 green wire ends though, only 1 of which looks like it has lost connection with the motor terminal.

The left motor terminal looks like a hole though. There should be a carbon brush in here (pretty much like a short, fat graphite pencil inner) which is held against the motor's copper component (commutator) by a spring & you should have some sort of retaining plate to hold this in place. These appear to all be missing.

Have you got any other similar locos you can compare this with?

 

If it is as it appears, then it is missing small but important components. There is no way it could have been tested & running.

[andyman7]

This is either an R863 or an R060 early class 47. The R060 omitted some of the pickups. The Service Sheet is available on the Hornbyguide website, link here:

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=26

The brush and spring are standard Hornby items used in all the Ringfield motors over 35 years so easily obtained. The bit that is unique to these early Ringfield motors is the S3766 Brush Cap. The supply of these is somewhat more erratic but they do turn up - I can find one current seller on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRI-ANG-Hornby-Hornby-Spares-S3766-Brass-Brush-Retaining-Caps-NEW/254119652512?hash=item3b2ab62ca0:m:m594B2TG8g2rfJz-ErY2vEw

If you have those spares and are up for it, an evening with suitable wire, some wirestrippers and a soldering iron should allow you to rebuild the wiring loom.  The body certainly looks to have been nicely detailed. Or you can take advantage of ebay's 'not as described' rules and send it back as there is no way that  is a runner with those bits missing.....

Edited October 24, 2019 by andyman7

[KeithMacdonald]

Hi Pete and Andy

 

Thanks to you both for the detailed replies. I've responded in kind to the seller, so we'll see what he has to say (fingers crossed).

 

I agree the body is nicely detailed, it would be a shame to waste it. If it comes to finding spares, or doing surgery on the motor, I'm wondering if it would be worth using one of Strathpeffer's upgrade conversion kits? (if a suitable one exists)

 

https://www.strathpefferjunction.com/Hornby-lima-ringfield-motor-upgrade-conversion-kits

 

[Pete the Elaner]

I had not seen those motor replacement kits before. They look well designed & I have heard that CD motors give good performance.

You'll either need to wait for the 12v Hornby Co-Co kit or use diodes to step the voltage down for a 6v one.

[KeithMacdonald]

The plot thickens - or, I get more confused.

 

Latest reply from sender:

 

Quote

Hello.
I am sorry to hear that you are advising of parts missing and not working, as I tested it prior to posting. But if you are not happy with the item, then please post it back to me, making sure it is wrapped the same way as it was posted to yourself, once received back I will offer a refund of the selling price.
Regards. Adrian

 

What to do?

 

1) I am reluctant to directly challenge his story, nobody likes being called a liar.

2) It feels to me that posting it back introduces the risk of more trouble / damage / waiting for refunds / etc.

3) Just to sanity check / confirm whether parts are missing, how about I test the motor with a couple of jump leads direct from the 12V power supply?

 

I'm still tempted by the Strathpeffer upgrade option - but after he's out of hospital and his shop is open again. And I've got a couple of old Lima models that might be ahead in that to-do queue.

[Nigelcliffe]

The CD motor replacements are a mixed bag - if you dig around, you'll find people reporting trying them, and deciding they are not very good, and sometimes worse than the original motor.   I've had a go at one (it was years ago, so can't remember the supplier), and removed and return it after trying quite hard to get decent control, relegating the model to "waiting for a proper chassis conversion to decent motor gearbox" . 

 

As to what to do - if the thread photos and description are accurate, then the model wasn't a runner when posted.  From the thread above, you can't test its running if its lacking a motor brush !   However, you won't damage it by trying. 

 

 

- Nigel

[KeithMacdonald]

On 24/10/2019 at 23:18, andyman7 said:

The bit that is unique to these early Ringfield motors is the S3766 Brush Cap. The supply of these is somewhat more erratic but they do turn up - I can find one current seller on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRI-ANG-Hornby-Hornby-Spares-S3766-Brass-Brush-Retaining-Caps-NEW/254119652512?hash=item3b2ab62ca0:m:m594B2TG8g2rfJz-ErY2vEw

If you have those spares and are up for it, an evening with suitable wire, some wirestrippers and a soldering iron should allow you to rebuild the wiring loom. 

 

Andy, thanks for that, I wouldn't have even known what to search for!

 

I've just ordered a pack of two. Now looking forward to improving my soldering skills.. 

As the loco only cost £22 + £3.48 P&P, I feel I can count this as a couple of lessons learnt.

1) read the advert more carefully

2) it's good to improve skills in fixing things

[John ks]

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news but you may also need the carbon brush & spring something like https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x8466-ringfield-carbon-brush-spring-multi-pack-1010.ir

 

 

John

[AndyID]

On 25/10/2019 at 06:48, KeithMacdonald said:

The plot thickens - or, I get more confused.

 

Latest reply from sender:

 

 

What to do?

 

1) I am reluctant to directly challenge his story, nobody likes being called a liar.

2) It feels to me that posting it back introduces the risk of more trouble / damage / waiting for refunds / etc.

3) Just to sanity check / confirm whether parts are missing, how about I test the motor with a couple of jump leads direct from the 12V power supply?

 

I'm still tempted by the Strathpeffer upgrade option - but after he's out of hospital and his shop is open again. And I've got a couple of old Lima models that might be ahead in that to-do queue.

 

I think it depends on how much you paid for it.

 

If it was close to what you might spend for a similar new loco, send it back. If you only paid a fraction of that and you like the loco otherwise it's probably worth the aggravation of getting it to run. It's unlikely the motor is completely shot. More than likely it Just needs brushes and springs, a brass retainer and reconnecting to the harness. There are lots of people here who can help you sort it out.

 

Just don't buy anything else from that chancer seller.