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Where 3rd rail ends, what's involved.


Simon Moore
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I've a rather large collection now of 3rd rail electrics I've been amassing & it's time to make them a home.

 

I have a trackplan book with a southern electric layout which I really fancy making. It is ultimately a double terminus because whilst it is a through station the 3rd rail ends & this brought about the post.

 

Where the 3rd rail ends but the line continues are there any signs or various bits & pieces around that are significant which I would need to incorporate into a layout?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

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OK so not third rail. But on the WCML there were signs at Golborne Junction, heading to the Liverpool Manchester line, that said Electric Loco's must not pass this point. Now its been electrified they have gone.

 

Regards,

 

John P

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Not seen a sign but from most European lines they indicate a change of electrical power for one system to another so I'd like to think that similar existed from the Eurotunnel and the southern third rail.

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31 minutes ago, AMJ said:

Not seen a sign but from most European lines they indicate a change of electrical power for one system to another so I'd like to think that similar existed from the Eurotunnel and the southern third rail.

Eurotunnel doesn't have an interface with the third-rail; the change-over points are on Network Rail territory. 

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Outside Dollands Moor where the 25kv OHL started, the precise point being the country end of Saltwood tunnel,there were signs indicating where the source of the power came from ie 25kv BR or 25kv ET. 

 

As there was a finite number of drivers involved, there was no specific trackside notice to remind drivers that the third rail was ending, there was however a large concrete block each side of the line just clear of Continental junction the sole purpose of these being to remove any collector shoes that had not been raised in time before the units passed on to ET infrastructure.

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At Hunts Cross they just end. I don't recall seeing any signs or anything.

 

Platform on far right is the Liverpool/Southport line and ends at a buffer stop. The centre line is electrified to the end of the platform behind the photographer, but hardly ever used. Just past the bridge in the distance is 25KV overhead and Allerton Depot.

 

Looking_west,_Hunts_Cross_railway_statio

 

View eastwards. The Third Rail ends just past the signal.

 

142031_Hunts_Cross.jpg

 

Photos Wiki.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunts_Cross_railway_station

 

 

 

Jason

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  • 1 month later...
On 25/10/2019 at 21:17, Simon Lee said:

Outside Dollands Moor where the 25kv OHL started, the precise point being the country end of Saltwood tunnel,there were signs indicating where the source of the power came from ie 25kv BR or 25kv ET. 

 

As there was a finite number of drivers involved, there was no specific trackside notice to remind drivers that the third rail was ending, there was however a large concrete block each side of the line just clear of Continental junction the sole purpose of these being to remove any collector shoes that had not been raised in time before the units passed on to ET infrastructure.

 

And Sandling tunnel roof and station footbridge were available to provide the same function for pantographs :D

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20 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

And Sandling tunnel roof and station footbridge were available to provide the same function for pantographs :D

Didn’t Sevenoaks tunnel do that job on one occasion? 
 

Andi

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2 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

And Sandling tunnel roof and station footbridge were available to provide the same function for pantographs :D

Yes and its enlightening when you see a pan close up on the floor just how big they are. 

IIRC the first to leave his pan behind was a Belgium.

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35 minutes ago, Simon Lee said:

Yes and its enlightening when you see a pan close up on the floor just how big they are. 

IIRC the first to leave his pan behind was a Belgium.

 

I don't know who was the first to do it but when the Eurostar driver training centre was at Waterloo there was a mangled DC pan head in the main class room which rumour had it was the one that came to grief on Sandling station footbridge.  I was told that was an SNCF driver who selected the wrong DC system.

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2 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Didn’t Sevenoaks tunnel do that job on one occasion? 
 

Andi

 

Yes I have a vague recollection of that.  Sandling you can sort of understand, driver accidentally selects the wrong DC mode when leaving the ET area but Sevenoaks is a bit more of a puzzler.

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1 hour ago, DY444 said:

 

Yes I have a vague recollection of that.  Sandling you can sort of understand, driver accidentally selects the wrong DC mode when leaving the ET area but Sevenoaks is a bit more of a puzzler.

ISTR in the early days of Thameslink a 319 had a pan collide with something overhead - in the West Norwood - Tulse Hill area, so a long way from the OLE! I don't think any blame attached to the driver, and when NSE celebrated its first anniversary, he happened to be on the  319 junket train, and Chris Green gave him full credit over the PA. 

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On 25/10/2019 at 16:07, 75B said:

Simon,

I'm not aware of anything, here's a picture of Reigate where the electrification ends on the North Downs Line.

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

Reigate station area is my maintenance area (S&T) and there are NO signs, special signal controls or anything else to tell  prevent electric trains  passing the Down direction starting signal even though the conductor rail finishes just beyond said signal (i.e. the London side of the level crossing) and does not resume until Shalford Junction near Guildford.

 

Old photos suggest the situation was exactly the same when the conductor rail was laid in 1932.

 

The only thing that would physically stop a wayward electric is the loss of power and subsequent brake application.

 

(The up platform is not bi-directional, but has conductor rail so an electric train arriving on the down may shunt over to the up platform via the London end crossover to free up the Down line so diesel trains can be sent onwards to Dorking).

 

 

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4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

The only thing that would physically stop a wayward electric is the loss of power and subsequent brake application.

As used to happen from time to time at South Croydon, where a wrong-description from East Croydon to South Croydon would send an electric train proceeding down the RVL round the corner towards Selsdon Junction. As it was a bit uphill, and the driver would already have braked when he realised the mistake, such trains never reached the juice rail at that junction, which - implausibly - only extended as far as Sanderstead, the next station. These days, of course, it goes all the way from South Croydon to East Grinstead, while Selsdon Junction was abolished in the mid-80s, and much of the line from there to Elmers End is now part of the Croydon Tramway.  

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14 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Thameslink trains change from 3rd rail to pantograph at  Farringdon going north and there is a sign telling the driver to lower the pantograph for southbound trains.

 

Going north they change at City Thameslink and have done for quite some time.  Southbound they still change at Farringdon.

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14 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

ISTR in the early days of Thameslink a 319 had a pan collide with something overhead - in the West Norwood - Tulse Hill area, so a long way from the OLE! I don't think any blame attached to the driver, and when NSE celebrated its first anniversary, he happened to be on the  319 junket train, and Chris Green gave him full credit over the PA. 

 

A 319 lost a pan somewhere down the bottom end of the Brighton line in the early days too, and more recently a 319 lost one after an argument with Blackfriars station roof.

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5 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

At Worting Jn the conductor rail just ends …….. no signs etc …...………. you are expected to know the route

 

It did get extended a little way towards Battledown on the down road in the early 70s so that misrouted emus could reverse without assistance.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

At Harrow-on-the Hill where the Met (4 rail i know) diverges from the Chiltern ex GC line to Marylebone, there's a train stop that ought to stop Met trains trying to get to Marylebone. I know someone who tried it with an A stock, there's a thread about it on District Dave's site.

 

I used to drive the Elmers End-Sanderstead line, there was nothing to stop us going beyond the third rail. I don't know how far a train would roll in the Oxted direction, never tried it.

 

 

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11 hours ago, roythebus said:

I used to drive the Elmers End-Sanderstead line, there was nothing to stop us going beyond the third rail. I don't know how far a train would roll in the Oxted direction, never tried it.

 

 

Not very far at all, Roy, the station itself at Sanderstead is on a 1 in 376 upgrade but that rapidly steepens to 1 in 100, so, with the permission of the bobby, you would have been able to roll back over the crossover into the up platform. However, I am not sure that the resulting Form 1 would have done your future driving career any good.

 

 

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