"Hawkesbury" - the engine shed area is no more.....

[halsey]

22 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

 

No problem (I hope your dog is OK!)

 

This is a useful post to visualise the old layout: 

 

 

Your answer about fiddle yards is very useful, thanks. So, the kind of thing I showed above, all scenic with a skinny bridge connecting the ends to make a circuit should fit the bill.

 

The scenic area should have quite dense trackwork, in the Freezer style of the old layout, as @Zomboid pointed out. So maybe we could have two opposing goods yards at either end, an Up yard and a Down yard, with a passenger section in the middle and a turntable and engine shed somewhere. To operate the goods you'd make up a train in one yard and send it out to run on the doube-track circuit for a while before it enters the other yard where you shunt it to break it down again. And while one goods train is running, maybe with a passenger going the other way round at the same time, you'd be shunting the other yard (headshunts allowing). Sounds like fun to me! What do you think?

 

Sadly Dog not OK (but still here) fractured vertebrae in neck CT scan tomorrow...…………………..

Yes you do seem to be on the right "track" (sorry) and your efforts on my behalf are much appreciated

 

[halsey]

Hi,

I have checked my supply of 12mm ply boards and can get most of the size and shape envisaged out of my current stock from the old layout!

 

I know the boards should fit the layout BUT the boards plan you suggest really sits well with me AND it consumes a much space as I am prepared to allow within the cabin so I am going to work on that...………...

 

Certainly the 32" deep "L" shape can be committed and a (19" deep) section across the window is also a given - the basic principle of the bridge and the board above it is also OK I will just need to review after cutting the aforementioned bits what is left to piece together a solution - I've got a good potential bridge board already edged and braced.

 

Enough to keep me busy for a while...……………………...

 

Dog still here but not out of the woods for a few days yet - then if OK a further 6 weeks cage rest - railway budget is affected.

 

Onwards and upwards...……………………...

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by halsey

[halsey]

FINALLY - work has started...…………...

 

Photo of the cabin

 

Photo of the units and the space just starting to lay them out nothing fixed

 

12x 600mm Howdens base units to be used as the foundation thanks to a very good mate in the trade - keeps SWMBO happy as provides loads of utility type storage probably split 50:50

 

Happy so far - also dog back home prognosis good but very hard to see him as he is at the moment

[Chimer]

Hi there, me again ...

 

Sorry I missed the start of this thread, but as one of the original contributors I'll be keeping my eye on you from now on!

 

I think Phil's board design is excellent for your space and wishes - it wouldn't suit a conventional fiddle yard setup but as you don't want one that's fine.  It lends itself to the main scenic section being developed round a (comparatively) large radius curve as shown - obviously inserting points to access goods yard etc breaks the flow somewhat but using large radius or curved points on the main line reduces the impact.  Minimum radius in the scenic section is currently around 36", mostly 48" or 60".  The inner circuit uses 3rd radius setrack in the hidden sections. 

 

On some of the other issues, I think I would focus freight ops on one line or the other, with a single goods yard accessed by reversing in from the running line.  Maybe a factory with a siding on the other side of the tracks to give you an interesting shunting problem.  With no fiddle yard, you'll need some carriage sidings to give you the chance to change passenger rolling stock, and somewhere to stable resting locos - a full blown shed might take you beyond the limits of what can be reasonably fitted in.  And you'll need at least one trailing crossover between the running lines, possibly one at either end of the station, if you include a station.

 

That's just an initial brain dump.  I'll be happy to help out with feeds and sections as before as things develop.

 

And fingers crossed for the dog.  Much more important than choo-choos!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[halsey]

19 hours ago, Chimer said:

Hi there, me again ...

 

Sorry I missed the start of this thread, but as one of the original contributors I'll be keeping my eye on you from now on!

 

I think Phil's board design is excellent for your space and wishes - it wouldn't suit a conventional fiddle yard setup but as you don't want one that's fine.  It lends itself to the main scenic section being developed round a (comparatively) large radius curve as shown - obviously inserting points to access goods yard etc breaks the flow somewhat but using large radius or curved points on the main line reduces the impact.  Minimum radius in the scenic section is currently around 36", mostly 48" or 60".  The inner circuit uses 3rd radius setrack in the hidden sections. 

 

On some of the other issues, I think I would focus freight ops on one line or the other, with a single goods yard accessed by reversing in from the running line.  Maybe a factory with a siding on the other side of the tracks to give you an interesting shunting problem.  With no fiddle yard, you'll need some carriage sidings to give you the chance to change passenger rolling stock, and somewhere to stable resting locos - a full blown shed might take you beyond the limits of what can be reasonably fitted in.  And you'll need at least one trailing crossover between the running lines, possibly one at either end of the station, if you include a station.

 

That's just an initial brain dump.  I'll be happy to help out with feeds and sections as before as things develop.

 

And fingers crossed for the dog.  Much more important than choo-choos!

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Agreed about the dog but this is keeping my mind off what is going to be a VERY long 6 weeks before we can even begin to feel he might be OK!!

BUT we are one week in and he's doing well so far.

 

Back to the layout I have now liberated/created a 9ft x 9ft square 32" deep area with the bottom left corner (as per your drawing) on the diagonal with a final 7ft on your left hand side dimension scale and 5ft on the bottom as shown above and the bridge corner board is very much a variable it just needs to allow easy access to the workshop in general and also the centre of the layout in particular

 

Remaining boards (cut to size) come tomorrow so I will lay it all out and post another picture.

 

Really good to have your input again - thanks.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by halsey

[halsey]

PROGRESS

 

The boards are now pretty much done and offer a blank canvass.

 

Whilst I still see this as an alteration to the old layout I have had a thought which gives a bit more scope (always referring to the travelling diagram provided by Harlequin).

 

There is scope to stretch the dimensions a bit further in that the "roundy roundy" (one or two tracks yet to be decided) could extend the full width of the "island" which is 5ft wide by * 4ft deep making the total right hand dimension 10ft 6" The 4ft MUST be split 32"/16" and shared with the workshop area but the workshop 16" could allow 2 tracks to be hidden under a raised shelf so I have the space for workshop use but its raised 6" to allow the 2 tracks to run underneath - this removes the issue of a curve intruding on the 9ft dimension.

 

The bridge location is still very variable but MUST be simple max 2 tracks only.

 

My thoughts on the general layout are also developing I see the right hand area (app 9ftx32") as being almost a direct copy of the "goods" sidings" area of the old layout with the canal basin at the bottom (on remainder of the 4ft island) the left hand side closest to the bridge I see as a railway modelling area one day becoming a town - its the other (top 9ft x 32") area that I'm now struggling with - I think I would like a through station of some sort incorporating the roundy loop.

 

HELP is now needed please to interpret this into a useable travelling diagram and to encourage further thoughts...…………

 

I'm still trying to think laterally about a through station on the top roundy to provide interest and a line connecting the canal basin at the bottom with a coal yard (below the through station) at the top possibly incorporating the headshunt if space an issue.

 

I hope my descriptions are good enough to illustrate my thoughts  - I have photo'd a very crude nts sketch to help clearly it needs to turn clockwise through 90 deg to maintain the correct orientation?? 

Edited November 7, 2019 by halsey

[Chimer]

It's probably worth considering at this stage the extent you want this to look and operate like the real railway - a question that never really came up last time.  For example, do you want a goods train accessing the goods yard in a prototypical manner (i.e. stopping on the main line and reversing over a trailing point into the yard, possibly leaving some of the train standing on the main)?   And do you want the goods yard to have a reasonably conventional layout, which it certainly didn't last time?  You've got the scope to make this much more "real railwaylike", if you want to - and when it comes to layout design and features, most people on here will tend to make "real railwaylike" suggestions.

 

Whatever - does the attached correctly reflect what you've just said about available space?  The 5' x 16" rectangle bottom right being the workbench shelf above the track space …….

 

Ignore the tracks for the time being, I'm just playing about to see how things might fit in.

 

 

 

 

 

[halsey]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

It's probably worth considering at this stage the extent you want this to look and operate like the real railway - a question that never really came up last time.  For example, do you want a goods train accessing the goods yard in a prototypical manner (i.e. stopping on the main line and reversing over a trailing point into the yard, possibly leaving some of the train standing on the main)?   And do you want the goods yard to have a reasonably conventional layout, which it certainly didn't last time?  You've got the scope to make this much more "real railwaylike", if you want to - and when it comes to layout design and features, most people on here will tend to make "real railwaylike" suggestions.

 

Whatever - does the attached correctly reflect what you've just said about available space?  The 5' x 16" rectangle bottom right being the workbench shelf above the track space …….

 

Ignore the tracks for the time being, I'm just playing about to see how things might fit in.

 

 

 

 

 

The left hand side "board" is wrong it is 7ft X 32" (measured from the top left corner)

 

Dare I say I liked the last layout but admit that I didn't operate it very much to test its weaknesses - I enjoyed building it up then it was time to move on - this layout will last longer I suspect - I do want operational fun over prototypical running (as I know nothing about it) and I do like separate scenes (modelling diversity) hence my thoughts of a Canal basin, coal yard, goods yard and a through  station.

 

BUT I'm very happy to review alternative thoughts...…………... I'm definitely not interested in timetables and fiddle yards

 

Hope that helps without deflating contributors enthusiasm

 

Thanks for your continuing interest.

[Chimer]

You're welcome.  I'm away for the weekend, might have some ideas next week.

 

Chris 

[halsey]

Just to clarify I'm not anti prototypical running per se its just that I know nothing about it - I suppose on (overnight) reflection if I can get close to what I want and do it properly then that would be a good outcome.

 

I am keen to start laying out some tentative track runs - if only as its keeping me busy whilst the dog is so poorly (but making steady progress)

 

 

[halsey]

13 hours ago, Chimer said:

It's probably worth considering at this stage the extent you want this to look and operate like the real railway - a question that never really came up last time.  For example, do you want a goods train accessing the goods yard in a prototypical manner (i.e. stopping on the main line and reversing over a trailing point into the yard, possibly leaving some of the train standing on the main)?   And do you want the goods yard to have a reasonably conventional layout, which it certainly didn't last time?  You've got the scope to make this much more "real railwaylike", if you want to - and when it comes to layout design and features, most people on here will tend to make "real railwaylike" suggestions.

 

Whatever - does the attached correctly reflect what you've just said about available space?  The 5' x 16" rectangle bottom right being the workbench shelf above the track space …….

 

Ignore the tracks for the time being, I'm just playing about to see how things might fit in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm interested to understand what/why I have scope to make it more real "railwaylike" this time and to very roughly understand what that looks like

 

The basic premise of your track as above concerns me a bit as it doesn't "fill" the boards - I'm not into modelling large areas of countryside I much prefer enhancing the operational setting rather than setting the scene for a single track heading off somewhere...…….. that's an overstatement but just a guide to my preferences - the last layout probably went too far the other way hence with even more space this time no branch line envisaged.

 

Have a good weekend...……….

[Zomboid]

You can probably find a way to fill the boards with track in a more realistic manner than your previous layout if that's what you want. Depends how you want to operate it, really.

[halsey]

41 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

You can probably find a way to fill the boards with track in a more realistic manner than your previous layout if that's what you want. Depends how you want to operate it, really.

Agreed - the previous was a means to an end and a first layout learning curve which I do want to improve on hence no differing levels and less going on - but I also don't want loads of rolling fields 

[Chimer]

I've got every intention of "filling your boards" - just got to work out first where the main circuit goes best, and where accesses to goods yards, docksides, engine sheds etc might be fitted in.

[Harlequin]

I'm finding it difficult to make suggestions with the new baseboard arrangements but I think Chimer is on the right track.

 

[halsey]

23 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I'm finding it difficult to make suggestions with the new baseboard arrangements but I think Chimer is on the right track.

 

and I thought you wanted me to find more space...………….don't stress this is supposed to be fun for all of us - all thoughts from those watching the thread evolve are VERY gratefully received 

[halsey]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

I've got every intention of "filling your boards" - just got to work out first where the main circuit goes best, and where accesses to goods yards, docksides, engine sheds etc might be fitted in.

Like it - all good cant wait for the next installment

You will recall this has all come about because we moved house so I'll spend the weekend unpacking the last railway boxes

Edited November 8, 2019 by halsey

[halsey]

16 hours ago, Chimer said:

It's probably worth considering at this stage the extent you want this to look and operate like the real railway - a question that never really came up last time.  For example, do you want a goods train accessing the goods yard in a prototypical manner (i.e. stopping on the main line and reversing over a trailing point into the yard, possibly leaving some of the train standing on the main)?   And do you want the goods yard to have a reasonably conventional layout, which it certainly didn't last time?  You've got the scope to make this much more "real railwaylike", if you want to - and when it comes to layout design and features, most people on here will tend to make "real railwaylike" suggestions.

 

Whatever - does the attached correctly reflect what you've just said about available space?  The 5' x 16" rectangle bottom right being the workbench shelf above the track space …….

 

Ignore the tracks for the time being, I'm just playing about to see how things might fit in.

 

 

 

 

 

I know you said ignore the track - I am assuming the bridge will take off within/under my 16" workshop space and not affect the 32" layout space

[halsey]

Pictures showing the under shelf workshop/bridge area - first track hitting the baseboards - a milestone 

[Tallpaul69]

Halsey,

 

It seems to me that you need more information about how the real railway operates?

So, some background questions:-

1) do you have any books about the real railway, particularly  picture books?

2) If you do, what sorts of areas do they portray?

3) Do you buy any railway or railway modelling magazines, if so which?

 

From the answers to these, we can gauge what information on the real railway you have4 access to, and may be able to msuggest how to widen your knowledge on the subject?

By the way, we all are learning continuously and all had to start somewhere!

 

Cheers

Paul.

 

[halsey]

10 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Halsey,

 

It seems to me that you need more information about how the real railway operates?

So, some background questions:-

1) do you have any books about the real railway, particularly  picture books?

2) If you do, what sorts of areas do they portray?

3) Do you buy any railway or railway modelling magazines, if so which?

 

From the answers to these, we can gauge what information on the real railway you have4 access to, and may be able to msuggest how to widen your knowledge on the subject?

By the way, we all are learning continuously and all had to start somewhere!

 

Cheers

Paul.

 

 

Hi

Interestingly the answer to all the above is no...…………..so why do I do it ???

 

Consider the interest from a different perspective......…….

 

I needed a fairly consuming project/hobby to fill retirement winters

I already have an all consuming hobby for Summer activity in my canal boating which I have being doing for 53 years

I wanted something that had a link to boating in some way

I like being creative and making things work

 

Now for the more important bits it needed to be 

 

Physically challenging so I wasn't sitting around all day

Mentally challenging for the obvious reasons

Something that could be enjoyed alone (as a contrast to boating which is full on socialising) I can be a bit antisocial and like my own company

It needed to be pretty long term with, in a way, no finish point

It mustn't involve driving anywhere

Shopping/knowledge gathering needed to be all internet based.

 

You may question the list but Modelling a railway fits the bill - and my Dad and I modelled extensively when I was growing up although it was his interest I was at boarding school and I suppose that had left its mark.

 

Thanks for your interest...………...

 

Thanks to you guys I am already getting most of this out of the new project as I did with the last one.

 

 

 

 

[halsey]

Here's how the weekend finished up - bridge built and undershelf area built with "hidden" and bridge tracks loose laid to see how they fit - am I remembering that the are setrack 2nd and 3rd radius curves? (they are taken from the old layout and if/ when hidden worked well)

BFN

[Chimer]

OK, I said I could fill the boards - hopefully I've got the arrangement right now?  This is very much a first stab which could be improved, but little fiddles take a long time to implement using XTrackCad and I wanted to show you something soonish.

 

So what have we got here?  Basically a double track mainline turning 135 degrees between two tunnel mouths.  This is at Streamline's 2" track centre spacing, with a minimum radius of 36", mostly 48".  Off scene I have used 2nd and 3rd radius settrack to get round the other 225 degrees to complete the circuits, resulting in having the wider settrack spacing across the bridge.  The points forming the crossovers on the main are large radius, those accessing the yards and sidings curved or medium radius, and those within the yards small radius.  The layouts of all the siding areas are just indicative, and the one for the loco stabling sidings in particular is very train-setty.

 

Freight ops are confined to the inner anti-clockwise circuit (I'll call it the "up" line for future reference).  It's quite common for yards only to be served by trains in one direction, with stuff originating from the other end passing through and coming back.  The passing-through "down" freights will have to be imagined, unless I can fiddle the layout to give somewhere for one to sit between turns ……  So an up trip freight will first drop off to and pick up from "Canal Sidings", probably leaving the body of the train sitting on the main between the tunnel mouth and the access point, then repeat for "Home Goods", leaving the body of the train in the up platform.  Then having departed from the scene it stops on the bridge and reverses into the hidden siding under the hill behind the stabling point until next required.  The fun here is using some form of random card system to determine which wagons have to be dropped off and picked up, noting coal wagons have to be left by the coal staithes, covered vans in the goods shed and so on - the resulting shunting puzzles can be quite head-scratching.  The shunting will normally be carried out by the train engine.

 

Passenger ops can be quite varied too.  A down train can continue or terminate - if it terminates, the coaching stock can be worked into the carriage sidings, or the train can immediately depart in the up direction over the trailing crossover, with either the same loco having run-round the train or a new loco from the stabling roads.  Same options for an up train, plus the possibility of the stock from a terminating train being worked into the bay platform to await a later down departure.  Work here for a station pilot loco ……  Note the curving road inside the up platform is part of the goods yard, not another bay platform.

 

To wire this for DC operation would be quite challenging, as there would need to be lots of sectioning to allow, e.g., the station pilot to attach to the rear of a train and remove the coaching stock while the train loco doesn't move.  Absolutely do-able, but much easier using DCC and just saying which loco you want to move (says he, never having operated a DCC layout).  

 

Any good/ food for thought?  Phil @Harlequincould draw it much more beautifully ……...

 

 

 

 

[Zomboid]

Looks like a fun layout to me, for what that's worth.

[Tallpaul69]

If you could live with a small triangular infill in the top right of the operating well to allow the loco approach road to be longer, the loco sidings and turntable might fit in the space top centre, releasing the space currently occupied by the loco sidings for more holding sidings for freight rather than the single siding at present beside the mainline at the left of the layout?

 

Hopefully someone with better drawing skills than I can draw this up for you?

 

Another thought is that a "down" freight could be backed into the bay platform or one of the carriage sidings between duties.

Or it could be a parcels train rather than a freight?

 

Cheers

Paul