"Hawkesbury" - the engine shed area is no more.....

[imt]

4 minutes ago, Chimer said:

The wiring diagram which (I think) Julian is following does indeed show 4 buses ….. (on page 7 somewhere)

 

49 minutes ago, halsey said:

I am now well into the wiring having decided to feed to all areas all sidings etc from a bus wire - but whilst I have laid out as above with insulated joiners I am confused - if I am feeding from the same bus wire to all these droppers in all 4 areas what is the purpose of the switched zones - or am I being thick ??

Edited 46 minutes ago by halsey

 

So if the first is true (and I have read and understood it - it's what I said above), then Halsey had better explain what he doesn't understand less the last piece of his post applies!

[halsey]

16 minutes ago, Chimer said:

 

The wiring diagram which (I think) Julian is following does indeed show 4 buses ….. (on page 7 somewhere)

 

Profuse apologies - I missed the 4 buses now I get it!

[imt]

You are rushing at things, and you need to slow down and make sure you understand what you are doing, otherwise you will waste time/money/energy.

 

Are you happy now with how this wires up?

[halsey]

15 minutes ago, imt said:

You are rushing at things, and you need to slow down and make sure you understand what you are doing, otherwise you will waste time/money/energy.

 

Are you happy now with how this wires up?

 

YES I think so...……………….I now need to refer to the 4 bus wire diagram to understand a bit more 

 

Not rushing - just nothing else to do due to on going dog sitting issues and I'm enjoying it - I seem to remember last time speed concerned others but I really do have the luxury of time...…………...

 

I've been concentrating on soldering droppers so nothing here is as yet committed and the 4 buses oversight is not an issue

 

I will never fully understand electrics (as it doesn't turn me on) which is why help on here is great as I can become an expert for a couple of months do it properly and then forget it 

 

[halsey]

On 28/11/2019 at 14:54, Chimer said:

 

Switches …. I have shown bus wires for each section, but you could take just multiple pairs of wires from the layout side of the switches if you preferred.

 

 

Conductivity across points relies on the moving blades making firm electrical contact with the fixed rails when pushed across.  So over time, dirt or slackness can result in loss of conductivity to (say) a siding even when the points are set towards it.  Which is why some/most/many people recommend feeds to every piece of track ……. for DC or DCC.  There is nothing you can do to the points before laying (as far as I am aware) to reduce this risk.

 

Edit …, some people's comments above about points only apply to electrofrogs, which you've said you aren't using.  But the conductivity issue applies to all types.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - light bulb moment 

 

I had misread this - I thought the switching was spanning the insulated joiners when it is "interrupting" the 4 feeds

[imt]

18 minutes ago, halsey said:

I had misread this - I thought the switching was spanning the insulated joiners when it is "interrupting" the 4 feeds

 

Exactly!  The idea is 4 electrically separate bits of layout, so if you have (say) a shorting problem you can switch them OFF in turn to find which it affected.  Therefore your 4 sections are wired through an on/off switch which is NORMALLY on - so all parts of the layout have a feed.  The whole idea of DCC is to have all the layout live - so for example a sound chipped loco will continue idling in the backgroud whilst you run other locos. You only need the switches for fault finding.

 

You would be well advised to be checking your sections for continmuity AS YOU WIRE them.

[halsey]

17 hours ago, Chimer said:

 

It's just to make things easier if you get a mystery short circuit somewhere.  By switching out each section in turn you can identify which section is giving the fault, which should make it easier to find, as you don't have to look everywhere.  You don't have to do it, it's just one more thing considered "best practice" by most of the RMweb community.

 

And while I'm on, here's version 6 with the rearranged loco shed access - and also with the throats jiggled to give wider platforms, as they looked a bit narrower than I liked in earlier photos.  You may not want to do this now, in which case you would just need to play around with the left hand throat a bit.  The idea for the shed is that coal / water / ash / fuel are dealt with on the arrival track and/or right at the bottom on the headshunt, before the loco is stabled via the turntable.  There isn't room to do it properly, with ashpits and coaling towers etc, but this might be a smidge closer to reality.  You could leave this bit to last, and start a new thread challenging someone to improve this area …… obviously, there are quite a few options for the tracks coming off the turntable, including whether or not you want an actual shed building covering one or more tracks.

 

I'll send you the file.  

 

 

 

I am going to go with this - decision made, 2 extra/different points now ordered - I think the boards are filled with enough track now!

 

Wiring continues...…………….....

 

Dogs X-ray yesterday he's doing very well, 85% mended/better (which is amazing as he had 3 breaks in his neck - even the vets at Bristol Uni say its a miracle) so bandage now off and he is much happier!

 

Cheers...……………….

[halsey]

Just a couple of pics to show progress on new and final (v6) re-arranged loco-shed track plan - not fully fixed down as some v minor alignment tweaks needed but 95% there - enough to execute wiring drops

 

 

 

 

 

The TT obviously sits at the end of the "spur" in the bottom pic and rests close to the internal corner (not where the old circle shows)

Edited December 13, 2019 by halsey

[Chimer]

Great progress, and that looks pretty much as I envisaged it - except that it looks as though on the inner circuit you've got a 45 degree Settrack curve immediately after the curved point at the top of the second picture, followed by an easy flextrack curve completing the turn to the straight run down the left hand side, rather than the other way round.  As it's the first bit after the point that's fully visible, switching them round would look much better, I think.  Assuming it still fits that way ….. it did on the plan!

 

On the other hand, I may just be being fooled by the foreshortening effects of the photo …… and of course at the end of the day, it is your railway .

 

I'm intrigued to see how you're going to merge 3-D model and 2-D backscene in that corner, and manage the scenic break - I didn't worry about that, just showing a tunnel mouth on the plan was dead simple.

 

Cheers, Chris

[halsey]

16 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Great progress, and that looks pretty much as I envisaged it - except that it looks as though on the inner circuit you've got a 45 degree Settrack curve immediately after the curved point at the top of the second picture, followed by an easy flextrack curve completing the turn to the straight run down the left hand side, rather than the other way round.  As it's the first bit after the point that's fully visible, switching them round would look much better, I think.  Assuming it still fits that way ….. it did on the plan!

 

On the other hand, I may just be being fooled by the foreshortening effects of the photo …… and of course at the end of the day, it is your railway .

 

I'm intrigued to see how you're going to merge 3-D model and 2-D backscene in that corner, and manage the scenic break - I didn't worry about that, just showing a tunnel mouth on the plan was dead simple.

 

Cheers, Chris

 

Its an illusion - its all flexi-track as it flowed better - but I've just been out to look and the outer track isn't pinned at all as I had to lift it as part of todays "work" so in the picture it isn't spaced properly (it is now) 

 

Well spotted - its a bit worrying that my work is getting such forensic attention!

 

re 2D and 3D so am I - but my attitude to backscenes is that they are exactly that and they simply set context - the foreground is what matters with the back "setting the scene" I think the separation will be a tunnel but I haven't got that far it might just be a wall?

 

Cheers - have a great weekend...………………….

[Chimer]

1 hour ago, halsey said:

 

Its an illusion - its all flexi-track as it flowed better 

 

Ah right.  When I have to use a 90 degree bend in a corner, I always try to have at least half of it tight and hidden (using settrack to avoid kinks), and the rest comparatively gentle and visible, rather than have the whole thing at a constant in-between radius.  I just think it makes the visible bit less train-setty.

[halsey]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

 

Ah right.  When I have to use a 90 degree bend in a corner, I always try to have at least half of it tight and hidden (using settrack to avoid kinks), and the rest comparatively gentle and visible, rather than have the whole thing at a constant in-between radius.  I just think it makes the visible bit less train-setty.

 

Ah OK I see the point - I suppose I did it that way to hedge my bets as I'm not committed to it being fully hidden/enclosed - whilst the separation will definitely exist in some way it might be a wall or façade with a notional separate country line/track lying behind it?

[Chimer]

If it were mine, it would be important to me that when viewing from track level or just above, from the operating well, you can't see trains on the tracks shown dotted on the plan.  So the bits of main line you can see only turn though around 135 degrees from one scenic break to the other, and mostly on a 5' radius curve (there's a bit of 3' to the left of the left-hand throat).  A double track main line visibly turning 90 degrees in 2'6" just has to look wrong.  The view blocker behind the loco shed could just be a high wall, or perhaps a low-relief warehouse back as you suggested on one pic earlier, so you can see (standing up close) what's going on behind it when you need to, but otherwise preserve the illusion that the track to the left of the station carries on at the angle you last see it.  If you're cute enough, the view over the top of the view blocker from the normal viewing height might just be the tops of the trees on the hill on the printed backscene.

 

But different things are important to different people 

[halsey]

8 hours ago, Chimer said:

If it were mine, it would be important to me that when viewing from track level or just above, from the operating well, you can't see trains on the tracks shown dotted on the plan.  So the bits of main line you can see only turn though around 135 degrees from one scenic break to the other, and mostly on a 5' radius curve (there's a bit of 3' to the left of the left-hand throat).  A double track main line visibly turning 90 degrees in 2'6" just has to look wrong.  The view blocker behind the loco shed could just be a high wall, or perhaps a low-relief warehouse back as you suggested on one pic earlier, so you can see (standing up close) what's going on behind it when you need to, but otherwise preserve the illusion that the track to the left of the station carries on at the angle you last see it.  If you're cute enough, the view over the top of the view blocker from the normal viewing height might just be the tops of the trees on the hill on the printed backscene.

 

But different things are important to different people 

 

I will review - I think I have "eased" it all more than you are thinking from the photos - I'll provide measurements...………….

 

The scenic break visual is exactly what I'm aiming for (one day) ………………….might try to mock up a better photo from stock of bits from old layout

 

Watch this space

[halsey]

1 hour ago, halsey said:

 

I will review - I think I have "eased" it all more than you are thinking from the photos - I'll provide measurements...………….

 

The scenic break visual is exactly what I'm aiming for (one day) ………………….might try to mock up a better photo from stock of bits from old layout

 

Watch this space

 

Radius is tighter behind the wall but app 4'6" after that - the photo shows 2nd and 3rd radius curves overlaid to evidence the very real difference - I think its OK 

 

 

 

 

 

and...………………. here is the scenic break mocked up to show countryside behind working OK I think

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by halsey

[halsey]

TT "fitted" and wired, loco shed sidings laid and droppers done

 

Wiring progressing - all 4 switched sections wired to the (DPST) switches and bus wires run for green and blue sections - all droppers done 

 

 

[Chimer]

You're flying here - I do so hope this works for you when it's finished, nobody (including me!) has ever built a significant layout to one of my plans before …..

 

By the way, you seem to have incorporated your last post in your signature block somehow …..

[halsey]

13 hours ago, Chimer said:

You're flying here - I do so hope this works for you when it's finished, nobody (including me!) has ever built a significant layout to one of my plans before …..

 

By the way, you seem to have incorporated your last post in your signature block somehow …..

 

My last layout had a fairly significant connection to you and that worked out well...………………….

 

I know I've messed about with my signature  BUT I cant seem to delete it nor do that which I intended which was to create a link to the topic

 

Sorted now - just needed to persevere  

Edited December 23, 2019 by halsey
update

[Zomboid]

I'd build it (or something very similar) if I had the time/ space to do so. The lack of a fiddle yard for some reason really appeals to me. Seems that you can have meaningful and realistic operation on a roundy in a relatively small space with just the one station. And the compromises that it requires are ones which wouldn't worry me.

[Chimer]

Realising the operational possibilities without much swearing and cursing is very reliant on reliable uncoupling, in the goods yard and the platform roads!  Fingers are firmly crossed on Julian's behalf ….

 

I would have liked to crowbar in one loop on each main line, outside the scenic area, to disguise the tailchasing aspect a bit, but couldn't see how.

[halsey]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

Realising the operational possibilities without much swearing and cursing is very reliant on reliable uncoupling, in the goods yard and the platform roads!  Fingers are firmly crossed on Julian's behalf ….

 

I would have liked to crowbar in one loop on each main line, outside the scenic area, to disguise the tailchasing aspect a bit, but couldn't see how.

 

If you recall I have all my stock "set up" on a single coupling basis and use a "dental probe" to uncouple which works fine for me - it's slow but so am I so no problems there - that is why I definitely wanted a 2 track "roundy-roundy" this time so there could be stuff going on aside from goods operations

 

Agreed - the platform roads will present more of a challenge...…………….

Edited December 23, 2019 by halsey

[Zomboid]

Tension locks I assume? For the between platform stuff you could try the old school uncoupling ramp.

[halsey]

8 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Tension locks I assume? For the between platform stuff you could try the old school uncoupling ramp.

 

Yes

 

Exactly where I was headed - but not yet!

[crackedmember]

Rather than use a propriety uncoupling ramp,  try making your own from a piece of clear plastic.  Much less obtrusive.  Use a model figure or other platform item, to help you align stock with it. 

[halsey]

update...………..nothing done over 3 day Christmas "break"

 

Today Loco section (incl Airfix/Dapol turntable with reverse switching) all wired up and working except for one "dry" bus wire joint (now sorted) and some dirty track/pickup issues which at this stage are only to be expected - decided to solder direct to bus wires and not use "snap lock" connectors as my pre Christmas DIY tests with these proved them to be only 80% successful at best - probably due to wire sizing issues - I'm happy soldering so prefer this anyway

 

Goods/Canal section next...………………...

 

both now done (that's the Green and Blue switched sections) and working - up and down line "loops" and station area next few days (that's the Red and Black switched sections) all droppers and switches done just app 30 soldered bus wire connections...………...who said DCC involved less wiring ???

Edited December 28, 2019 by halsey