Martin Finney 2721 Pannier Tank

[shellshock]

Hi there It is some time since I have posted here and I am going to be building a Martin Finney 2721 0-6-0 Pannier tank to P4 Standards using Ultrascale wheels fully working inside motion DCC controlled with working headlamps glowing firebox and sound. The first thing I am going to do is assemble the coupling rods and then use them to set up my Avonside Chassis Jig for assembly of the chassis using the compensation method.

Edited October 26, 2019 by shellshock

[georgeT]

Looks very nice, will be following  the build, good luck...

[HAB]

Here is one I did about quarter of a century years ago:-

 

 

Same spec apart from the DCC stuff.   I think mine was the very first to be built from the kit as I discovered an error in the design of the equalising beams and Martin was horrified when I told him about it.  But he was very quick to get out a fix.  I also discovered that the Mainline 57xx body fits the chassis perfectly - including the little cutouts for the tightlock couplings fixings!  So for a while, I think I was running the only Mainline pannier with working inside motion! 

 

The kit went together like a dream - though such a protoype will never be "easy" - and I think you will enjoy it very much.

 

Good luck, and looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

(Ignore the smell-box on the left - my modelling intrests are varied...)

 

Howard

 

 

[Brassey]

Interesting.  I too have one of these to build.  Which motor/gearbox are you planning to use?

[shellshock]

I have made up the coupling rods I had to be careful soldering up the forked joints just a very quick application of the soldering iron on the back however I oiled up the rest of the joint so as to ensure that solder did not go where it was not wanted. The basic frames have been drilled and cleaned up as well as the rear horn blocks fitted. The next stage will be to get out my Avonside Jig and set it up using the coupling rods as the basis and then fir the rest of the horn blocks and bearings which I have marked up with my own code of drill marks recorded on the instruction diagram for the chassis.

From the Brassmasters site they recommend a High Level Road Runner Plus and a Mashima 12/20 so I would consider using a Mashima 10/20 motor however they are getting scarce and High Level now have a coreless 12/19 motor which having already used one I am very impressed with but I will have to check if it is compatible with the Zimo MX648 or MX649 decoder I wish to use for this loco.

 

[Brinkly]

Good luck building this kit: I look forward to seeing your progress.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[Andrew Duncan]

Hello Shellshock
This looks like an interesting build and I’m intrigued that your going to put lighting in it as well, I’ll be interested to see how you do this. I’ve got a Wills 1854 pannier which has a coreless  motor in it with a Zimo sound decoder. I seem to recall I had some trouble to begin with but with some help, on this forum, from Nigel Cliffe I manage to get it going well. 

Good luck with this build, I’ll be watching with great interest. 
kind regards

Andrew

 

 

[Darwinian]

I have built one of these too, in 00, having done the Bulldog before. It all went together very nicely if rather slowly. Now I'm prevaricating about building the Aberdare I bought some 8 years ago. I'll follow your progress with interest, best of luck.

 

[shellshock]

I have fitted the horn blocks and made sure that the bearings a very slightly tight fit which either can be worked in by hand movement or very careful strokes a of a file. Having done this on the Avonside jig I assembled the basic chassis. Prior to assembly I fettled/broached out the frame spacer slots in the frame sides with and old 0.5mm diameter drill bit this ensured that the spacers and frames were a sung fit. Also I used a small engineers square to ensure that the chassis was square in all planes. The next thing to do will be the compensation beams and the frame overlays. Regarding using a Coreless motor form High Level with a Zimo decoder I will make suitable enquiry via Digitrains who are my main supplier of DCC equipment as I have find them to be very helpful and always give excellent service.

Edited October 27, 2019 by shellshock
Spelling Mistake

[shellshock]

I have now fitted the compensation beams theses being the one supplied separately and not the ones on the etch. In order to fit them I had to both open out the side slots in the middle frame spacer as well as carefully thin down the section of the compensation beams where they pass through the slots. Having done this I then made up the brake brackets and fitted them to the overlays before soldering the frame overlays on to the chassis. Having done this I then had to fettle some of the horn block slots as the frame overlays very slightly overlapped and thus caused the bearings to jam up. Once this was done I then fitted the guard iron struts made up the RHS pipe from the ashpan and then carefully soldered in in place as well as the mud door brackets. Next there is the brake pull rod safety brackets I am not sure how these are supposed to fit on. I can see where they slot in the the ashpan but the rest of the information as to how they go I am clueless. So possibly some one on this forum may be able to help me out.

I emailed Digitrains with the new Highlevel Coreless motor details and according to them there should be no problems using these motors with a Zimo decoders I wish to use. So have on order from Chris of High level a Road Runner plus 60:1 ratio and one of these new motors.

 

The next thing I am now going to do is the inside motion . This will be fun!!!

 

[Siberian Snooper]

I have just found this thread and will be watching your progress as I too have one of these in the round tuit pile as well as several other Finney kits.

 

 

[The Johnster]

I’m gonna be keeping an eye as well as I have a project in the pipeline for a Southeastern chassis kit for a Wills 1854.  It’s a very long time since I built my last kit chassis and I need to get back in the zone... 

Edited October 31, 2019 by The Johnster

[Guest Lyonesse]

Best of luck.  I built mine as a 57XX.  Fair old bit of scratchbuilding involved, but the Finney kit gets you the basics.

[Darwinian]

Re the safety bracket I did mine like this. Hope I got it right.

 

[shellshock]

Darwinain a nice loco there and thanks for the tip about the safety bracket so I will try to remember to fit this on when I fit the brake gear which will be after I have built the rest of the chassis. I am now reading the instructions for the inside motion this will keep me well out of trouble!

[Brassey]

2 hours ago, shellshock said:

Darwinain a nice loco there and thanks for the tip about the safety bracket so I will try to remember to fit this on when I fit the brake gear which will be after I have built the rest of the chassis. I am now reading the instructions for the inside motion this will keep me well out of trouble!

 

It's the same as the Dean Goods.

[shellshock]

I have now built the inside motion and after a bit of fettling I seem to have got it moving freely the acid test will be on the final assembly. I also assembled a Ultrascale wheel set using the GW quartering jig in order to do this I substituted the supplied cheese head 14BA bolts with 1/4” long countersunk 14BA bolts . This enables two things first the 1/4” length means that it will fit in to the crankpin slots in the jig as the supplied bolts are far too long and being counter sunk they clear the inside wheel to axle boss unlike the supplied one which would need either counter sinking on the inside or could cause back to back clearance problems when fitting them to the chassis. Having said that the wheels seemed to press on a lot smother than Alan Gibson wheel set.

The next thing I am going to do is make up the bearing retaining plates and current collection Paxilon boards as well as finish of as much of the chassis prior to painting. Before I paint the chassis I am going to get the basic footplate built so as to be sure that the body and chassis will fit together as with inside motion there may be clearance issues which I would like to sort out as early as possible. Lastly I have assembled the High Level Road Runner Plus Gear box as well.

 

[Brassey]

I am currently building the same chassis but I can't see how using the RR+ doesn't end up with the back end of the gearbox in the cab.  I am going to resort to using the drive stretcher as per the Dean Goods configuration.

[shellshock]

I have now as good as finished the chassis all I am going to do is reposition the reversing lever on the chassis so that it as close as possible lines up with the one on the footplate. Regarding Brasseys point about needing a drive stretcher I would agree from my trail assembly of the chassis it looks like the front of the gearbox will foul the front of the cab and also I think it needs to be higher so that the motor sits more in the boiler pannier part of the body. I have never been able to understand how the Horn block ties work in practice so I have made up wire bearing retainers which will stop the bearings and wheels from completely dropping out. The front one was fun to work out and then make it took two attempts. It is a combined retainer and pick up for the front wheels gapped suitibly. I have got the basic footplate made up as there is a temporary cross member where I presume the motor will pass through I am going to slog on with making the Smokebox Boiler and Pannier tanks and remove it when the instructions say it is safe to do so. Being a glutton for punishment I am going to make the pannier tanks snap head riveted about 500 of them! My GW riveting tool is going to see some use.

[shellshock]

Got the riveting done had to break it down as it sent my eyes funny as I fed the tank sides through my GW riving tool as most of the rivets are very close together in a double run if that makes sense. Then I got on with bending the tanks up using a 3/16” diameter forming rod resting in the what is best described as steps. The lower bend I used my vice and for the upper bend I used a drilling table which is now available from the Midland Centre as in the photo below. The trick is to make sure that the rod is fully home in the jig. Once this was done I got on with the basic assembly of the smoke box boiler and pannier tanks. One this was done it became very clear that the High Level Road Runner Plus required a Drive Stretcher which I ordered from High level and got the very next day. Once this was made up I then trial fitted it to the chassis with the motor attached and there is now enough clearance between the box and the cab front. I will have to get around to emailing Brassmasters to advise them of the High Level Gear box requirements from my experience. I am now in the process of painting the chassis and whilst I am waiting for coats of paint to dry I will get on with the bunker and cab as per the instructions.

[Brassey]

I asked Brassmasters whether they had test built the various chassis in the MF range with their recommended gearboxes.  The impression I got was not.  And that the proposals were just the view of someone (and I didn't get the impression that person was involved in Brassmasters).  The most bizarre recommendation is the High Level Load Hauler+ for a Duke.  Even Chris from High Level queried this choice when I bought one from him as it is a particularly tall gearbox.  I have no idea how this is supposed to fit.  In addition the online instructions state that if using another gearbox "that will not clear the compensation beam pivot", the work around is to "Cut away the centre section of the pivot rod"!  If doing this, I cannot see what would prevent the beams from falling off the  remaining rod and into the chassis!  But maybe I'm just being thick and I've missed something.

 

[Miss Prism]

4 hours ago, Brassey said:

In addition the online instructions state that if using another gearbox "that will not clear the compensation beam pivot", the work around is to "Cut away the centre section of the pivot rod"!  If doing this, I cannot see what would prevent the beams from falling off the  remaining rod and into the chassis!

 

I think the idea is probably something like this: http://www.clag.org.uk/pics/digest41-0/fig27.gif

 

[Denbridge]

4 hours ago, Brassey said:

I asked Brassmasters whether they had test built the various chassis in the MF range with their recommended gearboxes.  The impression I got was not.  And that the proposals were just the view of someone (and I didn't get the impression that person was involved in Brassmasters).  The most bizarre recommendation is the High Level Load Hauler+ for a Duke.  Even Chris from High Level queried this choice when I bought one from him as it is a particularly tall gearbox.  I have no idea how this is supposed to fit.  In addition the online instructions state that if using another gearbox "that will not clear the compensation beam pivot", the work around is to "Cut away the centre section of the pivot rod"!  If doing this, I cannot see what would prevent the beams from falling off the  remaining rod and into the chassis!  But maybe I'm just being thick and I've missed something.

 

I was always under the impression that Martin Finney had specified which high level option was the best fit.

Portescaps had become scarce long before brassmasters bought the range.

[Brassey]

41 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

I was always under the impression that Martin Finney had specified which high level option was the best fit.

Portescaps had become scarce long before brassmasters bought the range.

 

The instructions in the kits I bought from him just before he retired still featured the Portescaps and the Brassmasters versions still come with the conversion frames on the etch.

[Siberian Snooper]

Brassmasters list which motor and gearbox combination  is suitable for each kit.  Sorry that I'm unable to provide a link at this time.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Siberian Snooper