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LNWR.... Green?


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Hello all,

 

I'm doing some research on the LNWR, particularly on their liveries, And have read that before their famous BlackBerry black livery, they had a green livery.

 

Has anyone any idea on what the green looked like? I'm curious to see what shade this is... Has anyone tried modelling this or have any information?

 

Thank you for taking the time to read

 

Andy

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E. Talbot, G. Dow. P. Millard, and P. Davis, LNWR Liveries (HMRS, 1985) is the standard work on this topic. From that work: before 1871-3, green was the standard livery - described variously as "medium green", "medium green with a slight tendency to blue", "deep chrome green" and, from examination of paint scraped from, I believe, the very engine Jason showed us, equated to BS381C (1964) "brilliant green". Allowing for the vagaries of 19th century paint technology, it is believed to have been the colour used since Grand Junction days. Before 1862, the Southern Division at Wolverton Works used its own green livery, inherited from the London and Birmingham, described as Brunswick or light Brunswick green in some official sources but in practice more-or-less the same as the Northern Division green. The red livery allegedly used by McConnell on some of the Bloomers is largely mythical, though may have been tried on a few engines in 1861.

Edited by Compound2632
Typo corrected
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4 hours ago, Regularity said:

What was that about me being predictable? ;)

 

 

Its so YOU, we wouldn't have it any other way...  :jester:

 

Actually, I think we can all imagine who Mr Ed would be imagining in those Red Bloomers....

 

 

Edited by Hroth
the usual suspects...
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1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

image.png.676ae89d32539cee2eadf99afce3b26f.png

 

Sir Richard Moon says, enough of this frippery - black is the only colour from the locomotives of a proper, sober railway. Even green is gaudy.

 

Who?

 

Oh, that was Keith....

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Getting back to the thread, and according to that fount of all Knowledge (Wikipedia), the London & Birmingham and Grand Junction locos were green with black lining, a colour scheme that apparently lasted until 1873, when Moon bought a vat of black paint cheaply and ordered the engines to be repainted using it.

 

From the 1850s, Southern Division locos under McConnell were painted "a very dark plum red".  There's probably a connection between the "letting go" of McConnel in the mid 1860s, the unification of the Divisions and the transfer of loco building to Crewe under Ramsbottom *chuckle* that promoted the idea of an all-encompassing uniform colour scheme.

 

I suppose in the early years, when the L&B was running tiny Burys, the engine "livery" would be varnished wood cladding.

 

 

Edited by Hroth
more usual suspects...
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8 minutes ago, Hroth said:

From the 1850s, Southern Division locos under McConnell were painted "a very dark plum red". 

 

 

That is, I'm afraid, a myth without substance or evidence - see my post above, quoting from Talbot et al. 

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19 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

IGNORE THIS POST - I've just seen Stephen's longer one above.

Untitled.png

 

I'm not sure about the white lining on that Problem - Talbot et al., supported by surprisingly many pre-1870 photos, are clear that lining was black only. Is this model at Quainton Road?

Edited by Compound2632
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15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm not sure about the white lining on that Problem - Talbot et al., supported by surprisingly many pre-1870 photos, are clear that lining was black only. Is this model at Quainton Road?

 

I just looked at that model again. Apart from any inaccuracies in the lining of the green livery, it's wrong anyway since the model depicts with Webb cab and chimney, which Lady of the Lake received in 1876 and hence should be in the familiar lined black; it should therefore also have the larger sandbox on the leading side of the splasher; that shown is the smaller one she was built with.

 

Is the lining out of the preserved 4ft shunter equally dubious?

 

Ref. E. Talbot, An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines (OPC, 1985).

Edited by Compound2632
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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I just looked at that model again. AThe 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 closes on Saturday 2 November. Get your votes in now!part from any inaccuracies in the lining of the green livery, it's wrong anyway since the model depicts with Webb cab and chimney, which Lady of the Lake received in 1876 and hence should be in the familiar lined black; it should therefore also have the larger sandbox on the leading side of the splasher; that shown is the smaller one she was built with. 

 

Is the lining out of the preserved 4ft shunter equally dubious? 

 

Ref. E. Talbot, An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines (OPC, 1985).

Well it is equally in Webb condition (though boiler replaced later) and was variously owned as an industrial from 1914 so I suspect it is based on the 1865 photo of 1437 in photographic grey which appears to have the black lining represented in white BUT white lining on photographic grey always seems to be slightly problematic, especially as the cab is not original so the lining there is fictional

 

Edited by webbcompound
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Although you should not take some of his descriptions at face value, the following are from Ernest Carter's 1952 "Britain's Railway Liveries 1825 - 1948"

 

Edit: Sorry - put the pages on in the wrong order.  

LNWR livery 2.jpg

LNWR livery 1.jpg

Edited by Devo63
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  • 3 months later...

Well, perhaps the LNWR was not afraid to experiment back in its early days.

 

Considering that the new LNWR Bloomer model is gonna be another fully-working new-build that I would happily support, here are some pics from last November at my regular annual attendance at Warley.

image.png.2ee201c971fb520fb40d9f172f29da16.png

I apologise for the motion blur as one of the ladies representing the project was trying to take the perfect picture. And yes, that's my in the red rainjacket, black hat, black jeans and red Dr Martens. I did get some good pictures of the replica myself which I will be sharing in the future. One day, I hope to make a model of it using the Budget Model Railways 4-wheel coaches to make up one whole vintage high-speed train. (Eat your heart out, Pendolino!)

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