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Any S-Scale Question Answered


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Does anyone know if there is a source of Gresley 8' bogie sides for S that would fit the Society bogie etches?  I not expecting a positive answer, but thought before I start investigating drawing some up and trying to get a master made I'd ask!

 

Rich

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1 hour ago, MarshLane said:

Does anyone know if there is a source of Gresley 8' bogie sides for S that would fit the Society bogie etches?  I not expecting a positive answer, but thought before I start investigating drawing some up and trying to get a master made I'd ask!

 

Rich,

 

I think you might have to start drawing something up. :-)   The only bogies I can remember in S were GE bogie sides of which a good few were around some years ago,  but no longer around today.  Maurice Hopper produced a resin cast Fox bogie side and I think they are now finished,  but the masters are still around to do another run if required.   Alan Gibson also provided some whitemetal LMS bogie kits.  But I can't remember of anything else.    I have done a 3D print of a Caledonian Fox bogie and that worked quite well,  so you might consider going down that road if you can get access to a printer.

 

Jim.

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1 hour ago, flubrush said:

 

Rich,

 

I think you might have to start drawing something up. :-)   The only bogies I can remember in S were GE bogie sides of which a good few were around some years ago,  but no longer around today.  Maurice Hopper produced a resin cast Fox bogie side and I think they are now finished,  but the masters are still around to do another run if required.   Alan Gibson also provided some whitemetal LMS bogie kits.  But I can't remember of anything else.    I have done a 3D print of a Caledonian Fox bogie and that worked quite well,  so you might consider going down that road if you can get access to a printer.

 

Jim.

 

Thanks Jim,

I suspected that may be the answer.  I tend to use a company called WeDo3DPrinting.co.uk at Sheffield for 3D prints, the prices are generally about half of Shapeways, quality has been really really good, and delivery has been 3-4 days from emailing the CAD files over.  I wonder whether it would be best to design the bogie sides, and get a master printed that could be used to create a mould for casting in resin or white metal?  Never done that so will have to look into how.  I will need four for this first coach, and hopefully its the first of several so it would seem to be a sensible move, especially if no body else offers them.

 

If it is any good and of use to others, I'd be happy to make it (or the CAD files) available to the S Scale Society if it was any use to anyone else?

 

Rich

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Over the past year or so,  I've been going down the road of using the 3D prints themselves on models,  especially when you are not going to use too many.   On even the smallest 3D printer,  you can pack a good few parts onto the building plate which offsets the longish time required to do a print.   If your intention is to use the 3D print as a master then its quality will be as good as, if not better than, any casting made from it.   In the future we might look at the Parts Department holding a library of STL files which are used to print parts when required.   This would suit a society such as ours,  with a small membership and a very wide range of interests.  Who does the printing would obviously have to be worked out,  but the cost of 3D resin printers is dropping all the time so ownership is much easier now than it was a year or two ago.


Jim.

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11 hours ago, MarshLane said:

Does anyone know if there is a source of Gresley 8' bogie sides for S that would fit the Society bogie etches?  I not expecting a positive answer, but thought before I start investigating drawing some up and trying to get a master made I'd ask!

 

We did have some, many years ago. Not sure what happened to the pattern, though.

 

1 hour ago, flubrush said:

In the future we might look at the Parts Department holding a library of STL files which are used to print parts when required.  

We might, but it would need the agreement of the Hon Parts Officer, but files could be uploaded to a more secure members area on the web for sharing.

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14 hours ago, MarshLane said:

Does anyone know if there is a source of Gresley 8' bogie sides for S that would fit the Society bogie etches?  I not expecting a positive answer, but thought before I start investigating drawing some up and trying to get a master made I'd ask!

 

Rich

Ignore wrong scale

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I have some which I bought from another member; they are marked as 'masters', so presumably they are good castings for making a multiple mould.  I can always send them to PG  to get made into castings.  It might be that they were just sold on as not being needed.

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On 20/02/2021 at 18:38, SGF said:

I have some which I bought from another member; they are marked as 'masters', so presumably they are good castings for making a multiple mould.  I can always send them to PG  to get made into castings.  It might be that they were just sold on as not being needed.

 

Are they Gresley bogie sides?  Do you happen to know if these are the 8' or 8'6" ones?

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They are Gresley bogies, but scale at 8'6".  As there are six sides (all sub-masters from CMA Mouldform) I'll check with my drawings to see if one pair or three could be cut down to 8'0" and still look okay.  If it will work then we could get both sizes cast and re-introduce them to the stock list.  For my own models 8' would be better.

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With all this talk of hi-tech methods of producing bogies I thought you might find some of these You Tube videos by a Japanese modeller scratch building electric multiple units thought provoking. The models run on 16.5 mm gauge track and a scale of 1:80 and what look like Tenshodo motor bogies for power.

 

He uses card for the entire model including the bogie frames with brass bearings and coiled wire for springs - go to 13mins 10secs for the start of that part of the construction. Even I haven't tried to use card yet for running gear!

 

It appears that he is using PVA glue often applied with a toothpick.

 

This link will take you to the thread of his videos but the film I've embedded is the one which shows bogie construction in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu30DOMjaeEWj8PzsHOGi0A

 

 

 

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Ok, the springs aren’t working, cosmetic, but very impressive.

 

I notice he uses a plastic ruler when making cuts!

 

Is he playing sound recordings of the prototype, or doing his laundry in the background? :)

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2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Is he playing sound recordings of the prototype, or doing his laundry in the background?

 

Ha!Ha! I was sure you'd recognise the sound of a JNR electric multiple unit suburban train....Mind you we had a washing machine that sound just like an LNER HST leaving a station.

 

There are some fascinating tips in their such as using fine emery paper for smoothing joints in card. He also uses what looks like a 90 degree curved "chisel" to cut window corners. Where can they be obtained in the UK I wonder?

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1 hour ago, steverabone said:

He also uses what looks like a 90 degree curved "chisel" to cut window corners. Where can they be obtained in the UK I wonder?

 Is he using what I think is called a 'woodcarving' chisel? A 'curved gouge?'

 

There is a photo illustrating what I mean in the link below

 

http://woodcarvingillustrated.com/blog/2017/09/04/great-gouges-essential-tool-kit/

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A small curved gouge could be made from a short length of silver steel rod, drilled and countersunk in the end and then filed across the end to the diameter, if you see what I mean.  If it was then hardened, tempered and sharpened it would be fine.

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For an outside frame loco is it best to make an inner frame to support the hornblocks, motor gearbox etc - with dummy outside frames....or is it best to try and use the outside frames?

 

Many thanks in advance.

Capture7..JPG

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Whichever way suits you, but it partly depends on how much vertical movement you want to allow, and if you want it to show. You can just have elongated/larger holes hidden behind the cranks with dummy outside axle boxes, as per Guy Williams in MRJ 46, or you can have outside axle boxes which move up and down within the horn cheeks, without actually carrying the load, or you could have fully functional outside bearings with discrete springing or compensation beams.

A lot depends on what wheels you are using, and whether you want to be able to remove them from the chassis easily for painting/maintenance (either by dropping out a complete wheel set or removing cranks, wheels and axles) as this could disturb the quartering unless you are using a jig to set them, or maybe Romford-type fittings with square axle ends.

Trevor built an outside-framed 0-6-0ST for Scott, and made it as per the prototype arrangement (see mention below) and lining up the axle boxes is a bit of a fiddle when reassembling the loco.

 

On the prototype, the outer wheel sets tended to have outside axle boxes only, and the centre axle supported by inside and outside axle boxes, to reduce the stress on the cranked axle (on the GWR broad gauge, they even had an extra bearing in the middle!)

On something like the FR 2-2-2WTs, the inside frames one went from the cylinder block back to the firebox, as per the NBR 0-6-0ST above.

 

As with everything, particularly so in S, there is no set way. If there was, you wouldn't be using Romford axles and 3D printing! ;)

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Some years ago I built a Kirtley 0-6-0 outside framed loco which has a free rolling loco chassis and a powered tender - my preferred method for steam locos. The construction is rather rough and ready compared to the work of many S Scale modellers but it runs well and so far the loco chassis has given no problems and happily romps round 36 inch radius curves on the goods lines of Halifax Midland.

 

I used Alan Gibson wheels and their plastic crankpins which I found easy to use on a non-powered chassis. As you will read assembly of the wheels was done by inserting the wheels between the normal inside chassis axle holes and the cosmetic outside frame and pressing the axles through the wheels in situ. It sounds horrendous but the method worked first time.

 

http://www.steverabone.com/sscalewebsite/building_a_kirtley_0.htm

 

The other outside framed loco I have is the 08 diesel shunter built from a kit. This  has a normal inside chassis whilst the outside frames are attached to the loco body and drop down over the extended axles. The crankpin method I used has, I believe, caused raised eyebrows!! I originally tried plastic crankpins but didn't feel that they were secure enough for long term use.

 

http://www.steverabone.com/sscalewebsite/class_08.html

 

As Regularity says above there are many ways to tackle most S Scale constructional matters and trial and error is often necessary to get what you want.

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10 hours ago, Regularity said:

Trevor built an outside-framed 0-6-0ST for Scott, and made it as per the prototype arrangement (see mention below) and lining up the axle boxes is a bit of a fiddle when reassembling the loco.

 

On the prototype, the outer wheel sets tended to have outside axle boxes only, and the centre axle supported by inside and outside axle boxes, to reduce the stress on the cranked axle

 

Here are some pictures of the 0-6-0ST Trevor made. As pointed out, only the centre axle has both inner and outer axle boxes. The outer axle boxes were made from Tufnol and you can see from the pictures that the compensating beam acts on the outer axle boxes but secured to the outside of the inner frames.

 

1.jpg.9954c6d9495cd159da3096868b29633b.jpg

 

3.jpg.59e25a5cdac0852a56f0a874b7099077.jpg

 

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  • 5 months later...

quick question....I am trying to move to only using acrylic paints......mainly because I have found a good acrylic vanish and do not want to risk any contamination from applying acrylic on top of enamel (tests suggests that it works but I dont want to take any risks).  For "shaky cans" I use Rustoleum but their small jars of brush acrylic paints are limited in colour choices...Humbrol acrylic is ok but was wondering if anyone is using anything else?  It is specifically for brush work and not for spraying where I have the gap.  

 

Many thanks in advance,

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