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Alan Gibson did produce a kit for a LSWR 02 which, I believe,  can be converted into a G6.

 

I contacted Colin Seymour a number of years ago regarding the S Scale 4F kit. At that time he said that he had no intentions of re-releasing any of the S Scale kits but might, in the future, be open to the possibility of producing just the etches should there be any interest.

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Colin Seymour also has moulds for the whitemetal castings which go with the etches - well he did about ten years ago.    I remember that (the late) Robin Fielding got sample runs from the moulds about ten years ago but he never went ahead with getting more runs done.  I think we still have all the samples from these test runs - very nice castings.  But I wish anyone luck in chasing this up.

 

It would have been nice if the Society had been able to acquire the photo tools and the moulds when Alan sold the business but that didn't happen and I don't know if it could ever have happened.

 

Jim.

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3 hours ago, flubrush said:

It would have been nice if the Society had been able to acquire the photo tools and the moulds when Alan sold the business but that didn't happen and I don't know if it could ever have happened.

No. It couldn’t have been any different, Jim - and for a whole host of reasons.

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21 hours ago, flubrush said:

  But I think I remember Stephen Rabone getting hold of all the etches left when Alan retired.  He might know if anything survives although you would have to change interest to the LMS since I think Alan only did LMS locos in S scale. 

Jim.

 

You are correct that I bought Alan Gibsons' loco etches and many went on to SSMRS members. They were all LMS or MR except for some Isle of Wight engines. There are a few left although none are complete kits. There are some S&D 2-8-0s - loco body and chassis etchings, Stanier 3 cylinder 2-6-4Ts - loco body and chassis etchings, some Crab 2-6-0 chassis etchings and a couple of Brassmaster LNWR 0-8-0 loco body etchings. I've also got photocopies of the chassis and tender etchings which I've used to build my latest model.

 

If anybody wants to know more just ask.

 

img353.jpg.79b25dd71f95657b5f790588b446da25.jpg

 

Edited by steverabone
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Many thanks Jim - Richard actually provided me with the test shot of the Terrier etch and some castings, so I'm in good stead. I've got a photocopy of the chassis etch, but no actual brass - so I'm going to be building that myself. Is there a rule of thumb as to material thickness? My gut feeling would be to go with 40 thou, but I wonder if there might be an advantage to go thicker. I'm planning on using remote control rather than powering through the rails, so gapping/etc. is not a factor.

 

@steverabone  - as hard as it may be to believe, those LNWR 0-8-0's actually ended up being routed all the way south to Norwood yard - just a mile or so away from where I'm siting my potential layout in suburban Croydon!  It was quite the shock to read that!

Edited by Lacathedrale
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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Many thanks Jim - Richard actually provided me with the test shot of the Terrier etch and some castings, so I'm in good stead. I've got a photocopy of the chassis etch, but no actual brass - so I'm going to be building that myself. Is there a rule of thumb as to material thickness? My gut feeling would be to go with 40 thou, but I wonder if there might be an advantage to go thicker.

 

If you are short of any castings let me know as I may have some spare.

 

With regards chassis thickness, I use 18thou N/S. I don’t see the need to go any thicker. To ensure both frames are identical you normally sweat two pieces of metal together, if you were to use 40thou that would mean cutting through metal 2mm thick. :heat:

 

As well as the books written by Guy Williams I would also recommend getting your hands on the two books written by Geoff Holt. Despite describing the construction of 7mm locos his techniques are transferable to any scale.

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NS takes paint better than brass, but a proper regimen of cleaning and priming overcomes that.

Nickel silver is also a touch easier to handle and work, IMO, but as Scott says, there no big deal in using brass if you have it.

 

I use PCB sheet for frame spaces, creating split frames.

Prototype frames seen to vary between 7/8" and 1 1/4", or roughly 14 thou to 20 thou, more typically 1" to 1 1/8" or 16 thou to 18 thou. Anything in that range will suit, and I think most people tend toward 18 thou.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Next step in my Gibson MR Van quandary is to figure out the strapping.

 

The model as it stands is here:

ihWjZ7I.png

 

Parkside do a model of this van, it seems, and here is a picture which shows the detail in-situ that I need to add:

jIntvll.png

 

The etch of strapping is here, I've annotated what I think corresponds to what, but I would be very grateful for any corrections!

image.png.c8351dade2658d89076af3d8374cfa10.png

 

 

And yes, I have just noticed that I put the strip to represent the bottom of the solebar in the wrong place on my model, I'll have to fix that :)

 

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Can’t help with identifying the strapping, but note that the LMS vans were 9’ wheelbase, and the Midland were 10’, plus the diagonal went the other way, bottom left to top right.

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  • 5 months later...

I've got some wagons to sort brake levers, push rods and shoes out for,

 

image.png.9c206e4980b581685c4125ec884e8652.png

 

image.png.183f76723b6374145bec784c7c25b06a.png

 

My gut feeling is to use the WB6 society etches, 'Brake lever guides, RCH pin-down, 4 types, 6 of each' for those, cutting the levers, push rods out of brass and the block out of styrene. Before I dump a bunch of time into this, is this pretty much a known solution? Am I overlooking something?

 

 

 

 

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William,

 

I simply use whatever is suitable, making as much use of what I have available to hand as possible, including many items that are supposed to be 4mm scale but which tend to be oversize...

 

Hth,

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  • 2 months later...

I really need to get started on my locomotive builds. I have a half-built Terrier with no rods or chassis. I'm fairly comfortable (as one can be!) with things above the footplate, but underneath is something of a different issue.

 

I'd like a rough plan before I get started, so I was hoping it would be possible to get some answers to these questions?

  1. Find some NS/mild steel to use as a coupling rod - do the rods need to be jointed? If so, how?
  2. Utilise the photocopy of the etch and a works drawing I have to draw out and cut a pair of side frames roughly, then tack solder and drill/fettle them as a pair using the couping rods as a guide
  3. Set up some form of compensation - presumably continuous springy beams from High Level or London Road?
  4. Stretchers and spacers to put the frames scale width apart using gapped double-sided PCB to ensure no shorting
  5. Using Gibson axles means no split axle pickup so wipers on the wheel tops, is there a particular recommendation for motor/gearbox I should be aware of? I'm working under the assumption that the smaller the better i.e. High Level Hump Shunter ?

 

I have an NER Y7 from Richard, but in retrospect have zero enthusiasm for the prototype locomotive or railway, still - is it worth attempting that first as it's mostly complete (well, mechanically at least)

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  • 4 months later...

I'm drawing up an LCDR A-class and had some small questions:

 

image.png.6ca5f7e102ce3ec8178b1781c8866c83.png

 

1) I assume 0.5mm sideplay is fine for driven axles?

2) Gibson have 5'6" drivers and the association have 5'7" - if the latter is required, is it going to just be altogether easier to size for that, rather than turning them down?

3) How much vertical deflection should I expect in the rear driving axle? As per the above diagram the prototype has about 40 thou equivalent, but with the oversized wheels I'm down to about 20 thou clearance!

 

 

Edited by Lacathedrale
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@ianb3174 and @Regularity - answering your replies here:

 

Thanks re: info on BPRC - doing some checking and it looks like the A-class tanks will have capacity for a few different battery combinations. I could fit a 240mAh battery in each side tank and still have room for a reciever and voltage booster but not sure about battery management/etc - realistically I don't think I have to make any kind of decision about that now as the space will be the same space regardless of how the loco is built, and I can hot wire it with crocodile clips while I'm testing.

 

re: motor/gearbox - I was thinking that a known-good gearbox and motor combination would be a sensible way to allow me to focus on ... literally the entire rest of the loco. Are there any good resources for me to read up on?

 

I have some wire and handrail knobs for a planned 0-6-0 CSB compensated loco build, would that work as well as equalising bars on the driving wheels of the 0-4-4T? The advantage being, again, that it's a known-good solution from High-level for my first full scratchbuild :)

 

I was planning on a slotted hole for the bogie pivot, but honestly not all that sure on how I'll handle the bogie compensation. I think something like this: http://www.clag.org.uk/midbogie.html? i.e. an inner box containing the pivot and some slotted holes and pivot points, and then outside frames containing the bearings - pivoted using the same handrail-and-wire method?

 

Lastly, now I have my ML7 I can machine S-scale tyres, so I assume that using a normal knife tool to take down the flange  diameter and flange-base diameter down to their desired, I can then use the form tool to tidy up the corner and the face of the tyre?

 

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2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

@ianb3174 and @Regularity - answering your replies here:

I have some wire and handrail knobs for a planned 0-6-0 CSB compensated loco build, would that work as well as equalising bars on the driving wheels of the 0-4-4T? The advantage being, again, that it's a known-good solution from High-level for my first full scratchbuild :)

 

I was planning on a slotted hole for the bogie pivot, but honestly not all that sure on how I'll handle the bogie compensation. I think something like this: http://www.clag.org.uk/midbogie.html? i.e. an inner box containing the pivot and some slotted holes and pivot points, and then outside frames containing the bearings - pivoted using the same handrail-and-wire method?

 

Lastly, now I have my ML7 I can machine S-scale tyres, so I assume that using a normal knife tool to take down the flange  diameter and flange-base diameter down to their desired, I can then use the form tool to tidy up the corner and the face of the tyre?

 

 

On the 0-4-4 chassis,  at this late time,  can I throw in a suggestion that I think Stan Garlick used many years ago,  which is to treat the loco as a twin bogie chassis with the two driving axles as one bogie and the carrying bogie as the other.  This means that both bogies can be pivotted at their centres and the problem of the 0-4-4 overhang is solved.  I tried this out some years ago and it worked quite well with the driving wheel bogie pivotted with a press stud.  The driving wheel bogie was powered with an RG4 with the motor poking into the firebox space of the boiler.  The only problem I found was that the bogie could do wheelies if power was applied quite strongly and it did need some fore and aft control to avoid this.    I suspect that Stan had dealt with this in his chassis.    I'm afraid the loco never got finished as we moved house and all modelling stopped for quite a while.

 

On turning tyres,  I use a knife tool to cut the tyre to diameter with the topslide set over to three degrees and I leave the flange as a rectangular projection which is wide enough to accommodaate the root radius of the flange.  Then the form tool is used to shape the rectangular projection into the flange profile and root radius and I avoid letting the form tool start cutting the tyre,  which could put too much stress on the way the wheel is being  held.

 

Jim.

Edited by flubrush
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2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

Thanks re: info on BPRC - doing some checking and it looks like the A-class tanks will have capacity for a few different battery combinations. I could fit a 240mAh battery in each side tank and still have room for a reciever and voltage booster but not sure about battery management/etc - realistically I don't think I have to make any kind of decision about that now as the space will be the same space regardless of how the loco is built, and I can hot wire it with crocodile clips while I'm testing.

 

re: motor/gearbox - I was thinking that a known-good gearbox and motor combination would be a sensible way to allow me to focus on ... literally the entire rest of the loco. Are there any good resources for me to read up on?

 

I have some wire and handrail knobs for a planned 0-6-0 CSB compensated loco build, would that work as well as equalising bars on the driving wheels of the 0-4-4T? The advantage being, again, that it's a known-good solution from High-level for my first full scratchbuild :)

 

I was planning on a slotted hole for the bogie pivot, but honestly not all that sure on how I'll handle the bogie compensation. I think something like this: http://www.clag.org.uk/midbogie.html? i.e. an inner box containing the pivot and some slotted holes and pivot points, and then outside frames containing the bearings - pivoted using the same handrail-and-wire method?

Two cells will require separate charging circuits, not a big problem, but it means either two plugs or a 3-way plug. Two li-ion cells in series will give you about 8v (a range of about 8.4v to 7.4v) which will be fine with a 12V motor, just remember to gear it at about 50% of the no-load speed, rather than 75%.

 

I know very little about CSB, and the only version of it I have seen in S had wire that was rather stiff “to take out the slack in the handrail knob holes”, the alternative being a very sloppy fit with too many uncontrolled variables, so I am not in anyway able to say anything more than, I suppose it will work. Likewise, with the bogie, compensation would be pretty much the same as that arrangement for CSB, without the complications of the knobs and wires.

 

I don’t know enough about how you will build things, but I use pcb spacers and 18 thou nickel frames. If building a 4-4-0 or 0-4-4, then the frame spacer would have the pivot: just a bolt in a tube (quick and dirty shouldered bolt!). The bogie plank would have a hole to suit the above tube, opened out a little either side for side play. ½mm either way would be enough. Opening out requires nothing more than clamping the pcb to a piece of gauge-plate/hardened steel, so that the plank is parallel to the plate/edge, with the bottom of the hole against it. Insert rat-tail file and gently move back and forth over just a little amount whilst working sideways each way, having first maker the limits for filing. I think the weight of the loco would probably be enough to centre things. I know Trevor Nunn has done it this way (with beam compensation), with some side-control springing, too, on his E10 0-4-4T, but he is not totally convinced about the need for the side-control.

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Wow, thank you both! How would I lay out and implement the simplest compensating beam (instead of CSB) ? I'm happy to do, and would love to implement the most simple implementation of compensation on this very first of my locos. If it's likely to be more straightforward to the point of success or failure, I could defer the 0-4-4T and bring up an 0-6-0 tender loco ? Is http://www.clag.org.uk/41-0rev.html#figure27 what I should be aiming for?

 

Looks like I can fit a 2S, 300mAh battery between the wheels inside the boiler space:

image.png.af28153976517356367659efd9ae3669.png

 

If I leave the bottom of the firebox open, this would provide an easy way to charge and host a power switch, I think? Either that or in the coal bunker under a removable load. How important is battery removal?  I think there will be enough space to slide it out...

 

I've yet to settle on frame spacer material, so both PCB and square brass have both been considered (the latter obviously mandating BPRC). In the above I've amended to 20 thou brass, with the outside faces 3/4" apart as per article in Sept 2005 Gazette

Edited by Lacathedrale
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I have two unfinished chassis' on my shelf waiting to be finished, both of which I am ashamed to say were started a long time ago. One is for an NBR 4-4-0T and the other a CR 0-4-4T.

 

With regards to the NBR 4-4-0T, it was my intention to have the loco fully sprung. The main driving wheels are sprung with CSB's whilst the bogie wheels are individually sprung using Exactoscale sprung hornblocks. The Exactoscale sprung hornblocks are soldered onto the outside of the bogie frames so that they represent the external axleboxes fitted to this type of locomotive. I wasn't intending on fitting a spring between the chassis and the bogie, instead I was planning on installing a metal spacer, made from brass rod, so that the weight at the front of the loco would act downwards on the bogie. I also wasn't going to cut any slot in the bogie pivot as the leading axle has about 0.5mm of play each side of the chassis which I'm hoping will be enough for it to traverse most reasonably sized curves. Fortunately the prototype does have quite a small wheels base.

 

275769022_MainFramesNBR(1).JPG.a61cdf507e1baf922fbe5375f4e40f8a.JPG

 

1045152366_BogieNBR.JPG.ae420939a8d5f806e8fc219ec4c87b33.JPG

 

1905589125_ChassisNBR(2).JPG.95cee2b874c06c859ff78d415f2734ae.JPG

 

The CR 4-4-0T is being built in a similar way except I am intending on using beam compensation on the driving wheels. As with the NBR chassis, the bogie is sprung using Exactoscale hornblocks. My intention will be to power the loco using a combination of Mashima motor and High Level gearbox driving off the trailing driving wheel.

I actually managed to finish the bogie before putting it away on the shelf and it has dummy springs and compensating beams fitted externally. 

 

2075298531_FrameCR.jpg.6a399025711380d5ee462b70233975cc.jpg

 

1515048874_BogieCR(1).JPG.b2a28c8a3412b9fad4827e586d77da7b.JPG

 

1437130173_BogieCR(2).JPG.44657f89a7286f045b42be13b666a4de.JPG

 

585464060_BogieCR(3).JPG.7329961da6ab9efffcce72b73b86f02e.JPG

 

As I said, these are work in progress so I can't comment how successful the designs are at this stage.

 

Scott

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Absolutely beautiful. You'd recommend then that the bogie has individually sprung hornblocks rather than pivoting frames? As I said this is literally the first time I'm attempting this so success is more important than it being perfect!  At this stage, if someone can say 'do it this way, it'll work and be the most expedient way to achieve it' then I would very much appreciate that, and then once I have one under my belt, can experiment with alternate solutions :)

 

I'm assuming about 0.5mm sidways play on the driving axles. If it's compensating beams, the CLAG.org.uk / Scalefour site suggests a single beam down the middle of the chassis - but @Regularity I see in your example you have it butted up against the inside of the frame (presumably on both sides) ?  I guess with beam compensation you don't need to spring the hornblocks?

 

Cheers!

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34 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I'm assuming about 0.5mm sidways play on the driving axles. If it's compensating beams, the CLAG.org.uk / Scalefour site suggests a single beam down the middle of the chassis - but @Regularity I see in your example you have it butted up against the inside of the frame (presumably on both sides) ?  I guess with beam compensation you don't need to spring the hornblocks?

The S4 recommendation has a central beam and a fixed axle. This means that the whole body moves with the fixed axle. Fine for keeping the wheels on the track, but a bit rough at times. Twin beams for two axles, plus a central rocking point for the third axle, means that the wheels can absorb the shocks and movement, and the body moves less. It is also easily extended to 8 wheels: replace the rocking pivot with a bogie, or a central beam (for a 2-6-0 or 0-8-0): no need for compound beams and all that nonsense. If modelling prototypes with more than 4 axles, I suspect I might consider springing, if not on the whole chassis then at least for extra/carrying wheels.

 

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