Phil Traxson Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, DonB said: Thanks Martin, I have mislaid my copy of the IRS No.122 -- Which is very careless of me since I worked for Ley's for 25 years and wrote the IRS article. It took me about 4 years to gather all the information about the sidings, I pestered anyone leaving for any historical items or photos that may have been lurking in desk drawers, and I was allowed access to a basement full of historical bits and pieces. On the 50th anniversary of the 1875 foundry opening, all employees were photographed at their place of work. I found the original 5"x 7" glass plates which should also be in the Derby Museum stores. All my original finds were passed on to a Colleague (Bob Read) who wrote a history of the works. There was follow up information in the IRS journal a few months later. The foundry closed in about 1995, and is now an Industrial estate although the wall bordering the Railway was still standing when I last passed over the rail bridge a couple of years ago. Just out of interest whereabouts were you in Leys? I ask as I worked there from 1969 -1983 in the Millwrights (Fitters) shops, mostly in 1958 foundry but also elsewhere as I used to replace conveyor belts, I took over from 'Bomber'Hill doing this, until the great sell-out and shutdown when I was declared redundant in April 1983. I remember some old, ex-NCB, ex- Private owner wagons, which eventually fell apart next to the weighbridge. In some spare time whilst waiting for the vulcanizing machine to cook a conveyor I spotted that the original livery could be made out under the black goo from the NCB paintshop as the sun shone at an angle and eventually traced out in chalk the outline of the "Suncole" logo and rest of the lettering , and for years i had a "Wrigleys" wagon builders plate off one of them but can't now find it, lost or given away in the (too many) intervening years I guess. Phil Traxson (ex-Derby now Porthmadog) Edited November 9, 2019 by Phil Traxson 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Hi Phil, Our paths didn't cross at Ley's as far as I know, but we did meet a few times at the Mickleover club usually when you had your sales stand present Have Pm'd you . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2019 On topic. Leafing through backnumbers of the Midland Railway Society Journal, I cam across a couple of photos of North Stafford trains at Derby [No. 4 (Spring 2017) p. 24]. One is an H.C. Casserley photo, Tues 24 Aug 1920. New C Class 0-6-4T No. 4 awaiting departure from platform 3. Behind the engines is a NSR horsebox of rather up-to-date appearance; the rest of the train is not visible. The other shows a Belpaire-boilered New L Class 0-6-2T passing London Road Junction signal box on the "West Branch" - the B&DJR route - at a date before Dec 1925. The caption says the engine is unidentified but the number on the bunker side is certainly a 1. This makes it one of four built in 1923, twin to the preserved No. 2 formerly in the National Collection but now at Foxfield. The engine is, nevertheless, in full NSR livery. The train is a uniform set of LNWR 57 ft non-corridor carriages in LNWR livery - D333 brake third, D176 composite, D283 third, and probably another D333 brake third. (These final LNWR designs of non-corridor carriage, built from 1913 onwards, were functionally identical to the LMS standard non-corridors built throughout periods 1, 2 and 3.) The engine has a train reporting number 254 on its smokebox, suggesting an excursion - to North Wales perhaps? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) The NSR livery of 1923-built No. 1 may be explained by the NSR not joining the LMS group until 1 July 1923. Edited November 10, 2019 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 If one is looking for NSR track plans, it seems Swift Volume 4 by the Signalling Record Society is your best bet. The trouble is, the Swift books depict the locations as they were in the mid-to-late 1950s. Is using these maps too risky if one wants to accurately depict these lines in their pre-Grouping state? Here are track plan resources for other threads I've made: Cheshire Lines Committee Manchester Central-Liverpool Central - Swift 13 Didcot, Newbury & Southampton Railway Didcot-Southampton - OPC An Historical Survey of the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway London & North Western Railway Cambridge-Oxford - Swift 7 Chester General-Holyhead - OPC An Historical Survey of the Chester to Holyhead Railway - Swift 10 North Staffordshire Railway Derby-Crewe - Swift 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 By the way, Knotty fans: did the LNWR have running powers over the entire NSR system, or only parts of it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted November 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2019 I believe it was the entire system, although in actuality only certain lines were used. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 (edited) Does anyone here know what engines worked on the OWWR line and Shropshire area in the early 20th century? I'm trying to figure out what GWR engines could go onto the NSR from Wolverhampton over the Chase Line to Uttoxeter. @Miss Prism: I think you're the Western guy around here? Edited November 18, 2019 by GWRSwindon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 (edited) Depends what you mean by 'early' 20th c. My guesses would be Standard Goods, Dean Goods, several forms of 2-4-0s and the big saddle tanks. Edited November 18, 2019 by Miss Prism 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: Depends what you mean by 'early' 20th c. My guesses would be Standard Goods, Dean Goods, several forms of 2-4-0s and the big saddle tanks. Sorry, 1905 to 1914 was my intended time frame. I had known the Armstrong Goods tended to work in the Northern Division, but not a great deal else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: several forms of 2-4-0s That's what Ahrons says for the late 19th century (unfortunately he doesn't give much notice to goods engines). I don't get the impression that beyond Wolverhampton was in the forefront of the Churchward revolution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted November 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2019 The GWR ran through Wolverhampton, and interchanged traffic, such as coal off the Cannock coalfield, with the LNWR and MR in their local yards, and they were the companies who owned the lines serving that at area. The GWR didn’t have any through running powers over their lines, so I’m afraid the idea of seeing GWR engines using that route to get as far as Uttoxeter just wouldn’t have happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Northroader said: The GWR ran through Wolverhampton, and interchanged traffic, such as coal off the Cannock coalfield, with the LNWR and MR in their local yards, and they were the companies who owned the lines serving that at area. The GWR didn’t have any through running powers over their lines, so I’m afraid the idea of seeing GWR engines using that route to get as far as Uttoxeter just wouldn’t have happened. True, this is assuming the GWR had acquired the Chase Line and extended it to Uttoxeter. I believe this was suggested, either in this thread or another one that escapes me, by James Harrison perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted November 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2019 Way back in Victorian times there was a scheme floated for a route linking into the GWR, which didn’t happen as envisaged. https://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/the-cannock-chase-railways-1948/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Northroader said: The GWR ran through Wolverhampton, and interchanged traffic, such as coal off the Cannock coalfield, with the LNWR and MR in their local yards, and they were the companies who owned the lines serving that at area. The GWR didn’t have any through running powers over their lines, so I’m afraid the idea of seeing GWR engines using that route to get as far as Uttoxeter just wouldn’t have happened. The Great Western did have running powers over the Midland Wolverhampton-Walsall line, exercised in the form of two daily goods trains each way for most of the period 1876-1939, worked by 0-6-0STs or PTs according to date [R. Yate, The Midland Railway route from Wolverhampton (Oakwood Press, 2018)]. That, I think, was as close as the Great Western actually got to the Cannock Chase coalfield. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) - Edited December 25, 2019 by GWRSwindon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) - Edited December 25, 2019 by GWRSwindon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted December 25, 2019 Author Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) @Compound2632 How could things have gone if the NSR managed to acquire the South Staffordshire Railway, assuming the line was built later. The NSR with a connection to the OW&WR could be interesting. GNR fans: does anyone know what engines worked the Stafford & Uttoxeter Railway in the years 1905-14? Railways included in this universe's NSR: GCR (Macclesfield to Stoke?) GNR (via Stafford & Uttoxeter) GWR LNWR Midland (at Derby and Burton) Edited December 25, 2019 by GWRSwindon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 The Churnet Valley line was intended to provide a fast cutoff between Manchester and Derby, would it ever have been suitable for express passenger trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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