clachnaharry Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Livestock traffic seems to be a bit of a neglected area of railway modelling. Certainly cattle wagons and horsebox models are available, but I am struggling to find details of how it worked in real life. If we deal specifically wuth cattle: Traffic was presumably mainly from rural stations to larger station with cattle markets and abbotoirs. The experience must have been stressful for the cattle, so I was wondering about what arrangements were made to minimise that, If we consider cattle traffic from a rural branch line station: Was there a maximum time that the animals were allowed to be held in cattle trucks during transit? Were cattle docks arranged so that minimal shunting would be required to get the loaded trucks onto a train? Presumably the empties arrived on the branch goods, but did the loaded trucks leave on the goods, or attached to passenger trains? Were the empties left at the loading dock overnight or were the trucks deposited and collected within a few hours? Were the loaded truck remarshalled in goods marsahlling yards (including hump yards) or was remarshalling minimised in some way? Any info would be gratefully received! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Searching 'cattle by rail' found this: 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I found this website really useful. https://www.igg.org.uk/rail/7-fops/fo-cattle.htm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 What is interesting is that several of the Modernisation Plan marshalling yards featured cattle docks and lairage, even though the traffic had been in decline before WW2. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 When I did my guards training in 1973 we spent some time on how to deal with cattle trains, such as running periods, watering, and so on. I never worked one! Although there would be the occasional wagon load to or from isolated wayside stations, there were also some more intensive workings, Irish cattle from Holyhead, for example, when a large number of animals would arrive together off the ferry. Empty cattle wagons could be marshalled anywhere in the train but those with cattle aboard were always next to the loco. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Back in the day , for a town of around 15,000 souls, Normanton had an incredible number of butchers shops. I was told this was due to the fact it was an overnight watering stop for the cattle trains. A ministry vet would inspect the animals and any injured beasts would be stopped from further travel. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 You may need to ignore horseboxes as they were for racehorses and occasionally cavalry horses, not livestock. They were always carried as passenger traffic or in dedicated trains. Ordinary horses would be carried in cattle wagons. Jason 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Fat Controller said: What is interesting is that several of the Modernisation Plan marshalling yards featured cattle docks and lairage, even though the traffic had been in decline before WW2. The number of stations allowed to send or receive cattle traffic was very substantially reduced in the late 1950s. I think I might have a list somwhere but it was cut down to around two dozen stations nationally. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Fat Controller said: What is interesting is that several of the Modernisation Plan marshalling yards featured cattle docks and lairage, even though the traffic had been in decline before WW2. As I understand it was for the transhipment of Beasts on crippled wagons, hence the Tinsley one! Mark Saunders Edited November 4, 2019 by Mark Saunders 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Simon Lee Posted November 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 5, 2019 Somewhere in my collection are 2 BR publications issues to staff regarding transport of cattle. One entitled "Customers can complain, Cattle can't" is a very comprehensive guide for staff covering the exact detail of movements and a whole host of what to do when, type instructions. I will try to find this and post some images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Attached is information from the LMS General Appendix 1931 and Railway Management by E B Ivatts from 1885. The latter is obviously a very different era to that which many of us model and study but it does give quite an insight into how somebody saw livestock handling on the railways. Some of the things he mentions such as lime washing wagons were subsequently changed. Due to the size of the files I will use more than one post. 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Second batch of images from Ivatt book 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 My Dad remembers cattle being prepared for loading at Llandilo on the Central Wales Line in the 1930’s and 40’s. The livestock market was at the top of Blende Road, a 5 minute walk from the station. The cattle would be herded down the road and when arriving at the station all the station staff would turn out to direct the animals to the cattle pens which were at the north end of the goods yard. It was not unknown for animals to have to be chased off the mainline while this happened. The cattle were then kept in the pens overnight before being despatched the following day by rail. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 In the 1950s in the early part of my dad's railway career he spent a spell in the District Control office at Exeter Central. He told me that there was a freight control post with specific responsibilty to monitor livestock traffic, arranging the attendance of a vet etc. I think it was an afternoon duty, which is when freight trains would be running up from the West Country towards London. cheers 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The Ivatt book is a real treasure. The railway companies were clearly missing a trick by not retaining some specialist contractors to manage the eccentric customers. A few very large and expert men of threatening demeanour and with a full command of the vituperative language understood by farming folk could have made a world of difference. Regularly reminding the consignees that 'I knows where you lives', kicking the random drovers off railway premises at every opportunity, fully equipped to slaughter and bleed any uncooperative beast at a moment's notice; and most vitally ready to appear in court to credibly testify that the consignee and drovers were drunk or worse, the livestock in poor condition as received, and the railway executed its duties in respect of this traffic immaculately at all times. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: fully equipped to slaughter and bleed any uncooperative beast at a moment's notice 34. are you still talking about random drovers here? Jim 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Jim49 said: 34. are you still talking about random drovers here? No, strictly the livestock; but it would certainly have helped the cause if the drovers believed that they were included. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 20 hours ago, Mark Saunders said: As I understand it was for the transhipment of Beasts on crippled wagons, hence the Tinsley one! Mark Saunders As here https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcattle/e7af37cd https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcattle/ef7af07 Certainly not suitable for unloading and servicing a full livestock train. There were facilities elsewhere that could unload and service full trains. Livestock has been discussed frequently, a couple of links and Paul https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcattle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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