Ratio 554 wartime signal box

[simon b]

Anyone have any news as to when this is going to be released? My old peco catalogue said 2018 but I haven't seen anything about it since?

 

[PMP]

The last update I had was early summer, and that 2020 was now anticipated release.

[TheSignalEngineer]

4 minutes ago, PMP said:

The last update I had was early summer, and that 2020 was now anticipated release.

Looks promising. I'm waiting to see it in the flesh as I need one and it would save me having to scratch build. Last time I asked it was due late this year but that predated your information.

[simon b]

That looks just what I need, hopefully it comes out early next year.

[Steamport Southport]

The version in the OP looks like the one at Runcorn.

 

 

Photo from wiki by El Pollock

 

 

 

Jason

[TheSignalEngineer]

19 hours ago, PMP said:

The last update I had was early summer, and that 2020 was now anticipated release.

 

A few comments

• It shouldn't have any windows downstairs although Broom Junction had one added later..
• The window frames look too heavy, they were a fairly narrow steel section.
• Brickwork, although there were variations, was normally arranged in alternate rows of headers and stretchers. The walls were solid brick about 13" 14" thick.
• Again, there were variations but the upper blue brick sections were sometimes arranged as soldier courses.

Edited November 6, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer
Wall thickness

[TheSignalEngineer]

New view of the CAD of the final version. 

https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/buildings-and-people/ratio-554-wartime-arp-flat-roof-signal-box/

 

I think the prototype is Town Green which was near Ormskirk. That was a post-war modified version built c1949 so I think I will be scratch building unless suitable for a kit bash. 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer

[PMP]

9 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

A few comments

• It shouldn't have any windows downstairs although Broom Junction had one added later..
• The window frames look too heavy, they were a fairly narrow steel section.
• Brickwork, although there were variations, was normally arranged in alternate rows of headers and stretchers. The walls were solid brick about 13" thick.
• Again, there were variations but the upper blue brick sections were sometimes arranged as soldier courses.

Bearing in mind this is a 3D print for test purposes, I’d be very surprised if there aren’t  improved window frames on release. The GW signal box of a few years back had very good plastic frames. 

The brick courses on this print are headers vs stretchers, see attached.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

Thanks for the picture of the box and brickwork. 

 

The rear of the model confirms that the prototype is Town Green. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikwe_OrdXlAhUKfxoKHTQQDDsQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pillbox-study-group.org.uk%2Fother-wwii-defensive-structures%2Farp-sgnal-box%2Farptowngreen%2F&psig=AOvVaw2TLbmsDXChVkbHsVo5QsCM&ust=1573121810676752

 

I know of at least three different door arrangements upstairs and different arrangements of the stairs and underportion door including a brick staircase on the L&Y at Greetland No.2.

 

 

[tomparryharry]

I think it's a tad heavy on the glazing bars, but otherwise, it's not too bad. Dos it have a metal 'coffin' inside the operating floor? A good follow up, perchance, is the Anderson Shelter near the steps.

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

is the Anderson Shelter near the steps.

The signalman went underneath the box if necessary, much better than an Anderson shelter. I think the coffin was more a feature of ordinary boxes. There isn't one shown on the typical layout drawing.

To be really prepared he could sit on the closet under the stairs. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 different arrangements of the stairs

The sample shown is for the operating floor 10' above rail level with 10 treads.

For higher boxes there was a second string of 4 treads or 7 treads against the end wall and the landing was shorter.

This picture of Watery Lane which was a 12' elevation. The marks on the wall show where the 4 treads were removed and the white brickwork shows where the closet has been demolished.

Watery Lane 1998 by Simon Barnes, on Flickr

 

The box had additional windows in the plain end and rear for visibility of the level crossing.

https://flic.kr/p/a6jZVX

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Thanks for the picture of the box and brickwork. 

 

The rear of the model confirms that the prototype is Town Green. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikwe_OrdXlAhUKfxoKHTQQDDsQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pillbox-study-group.org.uk%2Fother-wwii-defensive-structures%2Farp-sgnal-box%2Farptowngreen%2F&psig=AOvVaw2TLbmsDXChVkbHsVo5QsCM&ust=1573121810676752

 

I know of at least three different door arrangements upstairs and different arrangements of the stairs and underportion door including a brick staircase on the L&Y at Greetland No.2.

 

 

Were these structures constructed adjacent to existing boxes, or were they built around them,  and then the original structure demolished?

[TheSignalEngineer]

50 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Were these structures constructed adjacent to existing boxes, or were they built around them,  and then the original structure demolished?

They were either new build where a box needed to be replaced or where alterations to the layout took place or were done as a permanent replacement when a box was demolished by enemy action.

An example of a new box was Bordesley Junction when the connection from the LMS to GWR was doubled in 1941. According to my grandfather they had a lot of Italian POWs labouring on the job with them.

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

They were either new build where a box needed to be replaced or where alterations to the layout took place or were done as a permanent replacement when a box was demolished by enemy action.

An example of a new box was Bordesley Junction when the connection from the LMS to GWR was doubled in 1941. According to my grandfather they had a lot of Italian POWs labouring on the job with them.

Thanks for that. I know of two WR boxes destroyed in action; the one on the west curve next to Landore shed, and the one at Castle Cary. In the case of the latter, I wonder why it was painted white?

[tomparryharry]

To be honest, I can't ever remember being inside a wartime Western box. Are there any left? 

[BernardTPM]

3 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

I think it's a tad heavy on the glazing bars, but otherwise, it's not too bad.

As the test piece is a one-piece 3D print it should bear little resemblance to the final, injection moulded kit which would be made up of separate, and probably thinner, parts. One option on the windows would be to mould the thin frames and windows as one in clear plastic. This would also make it possible to reproduce the recess for the sliding part in the middle; full depth on one window I assume to allow for token exchange or similar.

[TheSignalEngineer]

A lot of information here

 

http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/other-wwii-defensive-structures/arp-sgnal-box/

[TheSignalEngineer]

6 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

I assume to allow for token exchange or similar.

No, just for ventilation.

Broom West had a wooden platform in front of the steps for token exchange.

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/smj_brm396.htm

 

Although the line closed in 1962 the box was still standing this year, visible from the A46 north of Evesham, picture from Google Earth.

 

More pictures are available here

http://www.smj.me/photo/photo/search?q=broom+west

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

No, just for ventilation.

Broom West had a wooden platform in front of the steps for token exchange.

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/smj_brm396.htm

So why did they have a full depth opening section on that one window at Watery Lane? Curious.

Edited November 6, 2019 by BernardTPM

[rue_d_etropal]

 I have done my own version for 3D printing which can be done in virtually any scale. Whilst doing the research I was amazed just how many variations there were. Eaxh was desgned for a particular purpose and position. http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/Buildings_and_Furniture/buildings2.htm

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

19 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

So why did they have a full depth opening section on that one window at Watery Lane? Curious.

That frame isn't original. It looks like a wooden replacement

[TheSignalEngineer]

From a previous topic Cold Meece, Staffordshire, during site clearance in 2017.

 

Upstairs closet as Broom West, but two string staircase.

Also note no blue bricks on this, probably as it was built for the Government inside the ROF site rather than on an LMS main line

 

 

[Oldddudders]

11 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

 I have done my own version for 3D printing which can be done in virtually any scale. Whilst doing the research I was amazed just how many variations there were. Eaxh was desgned for a particular purpose and position. http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/Buildings_and_Furniture/buildings2.htm

 

I think the customisation to site is how such designs work, really. Contractors take a plan and adapt as needed. Back in the 1880s the LBSCR retained an architect, T.H.Myres of Preston, Lancs, to design stations. 17 were built, including three now on the Bluebell, but each was different from the others. A century later NSE wanted to improve old and damp stations, and John Fellowes developed the VSB90 design, which could be adapted to site. 

[Wickham Green]

On 06/11/2019 at 14:11, Fat Controller said:

Thanks for that. I know of two WR boxes destroyed in action; the one on the west curve next to Landore shed, and the one at Castle Cary. In the case of the latter, I wonder why it was painted white?

Probably painted by a fifth columnist so the Luftwaffe could spot it on a dark night.