Fat Controller Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Denbridge said: It wasn't a wheel in the accepted sense. It played no part in carrying the coach, merely a disc riding on the railhead for measuring purposes. Technology that is still to be found in SNCF's 'Mauzin' track recording coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 hours ago, keefer said: Re: the LMS-design sleepers - it was the 1st class that had 6-wheel bogies, the 2nd class had 4-wheel bogies. Back in the days when fatness was a sign of wealth rather than poverty 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, Talltim said: Back in the days when fatness was a sign of wealth rather than poverty Before Greggs and McDonalds........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nearholmer said: ........ Googling to try to find when they were withdrawn - the interesting point being that this 12 wheeled coach was actually built by BR in 1952, to an LMS design! http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/398.html The fact that it was preserved in 1974 in good nick suggests withdrawn 1973/74. There are quite a number on the Carriage Survey - one at least scrapped - 73/74 is probably right for traffic withdrawal but a number acquired DB numbers for a few more years and entered preservation between 79 & 83. ( I'm sure I looked at a pair at Newton Heath still in blue & grey bit can't find any photos ! ....... may have included the one that went to the Mad Hints ) Edited November 8, 2019 by Wickham Green speeling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 14 hours ago, Compound2632 said: If they made it to 1976, that would be a century since the first British 12-wheeler took to the rails. There was a 12-wheeler in the Royal Train until the mid(?) 1980s. If that counts? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I saw some LMS sleepers at Didcot in August 1977, blue/grey but marked with the crossed circle Condemned symbol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 8, 2019 The 12w sleeper on the NYMR turned up in blue and grey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 3 hours ago, dvdlcs said: There was a 12-wheeler in the Royal Train until the mid(?) 1980s. If that counts? The 1941 King's and Queen's Saloons were preserved in 1977 .......... the matching Generator Brake disappeared beneath a coat of grey paint and was last seen at Vic Berry's in Leicester : Christmas 1990. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Small point on the blue/grey livery on LMS sleepers. The recessed door handle area was blue even though it was partially in the grey window surround panel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 Some pics on Robert Carroll's Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6823366150/in/album-72157603653607671/ (I never realised there were LMS-design Sleeper Composites) Previous 2 pics show LMS vehicles, next 11 pics show 8 & 12-wheel Sleepers in maroon & blue/grey. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Just wondering what the best route to a blue/grey 12 wheeler sleeping car is? Is the comet kit suitable? I notice the sides are available separately, would using the Hornby 12 wheel restaurant car to fit comet sides to be an option? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 The LMS 12 wheel sleepers that survived to blue/grey were D2166 plus one of D1928; these were all 69 ft vehicles. The only 69 ft-er listed by Comet is the D1947 composite, all of which had gone by 1963. The other snag is that the Hornby 12-wheeler is a 68 ft-er. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Comet do the D2166: https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/carriage/lms-stanier-d19262166-69ft-sleeper-first-12-wheeler-m35k/ I was wondering if it would be easier to stretch the Hornby underframe rather than build the Comet one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: The other snag is that the Hornby 12-wheeler is a 68 ft-er. And the underframe is poor, rides at the wrong height and has cut-outs for first radius curves! Not a good place to start from IMHO 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, melmerby said: And the underframe is poor, rides at the wrong height and has cut-outs for first radius curves! Not a good place to start from IMHO Fair enough, however you have reminded me that it will have to negotiate second radius curves - not on the main line I hasten to add, but there are some tight spots on the station throat. I hope I won't need to make cut outs on the comet to get it to work... Edited November 8, 2019 by Titan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) The Bluebell 6 wheeler was in the DB series when received - and in blue and grey https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmscoach/e37460bee The 4 wheelers appear to have lasted a little longer, this is 1978 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmscoach/e8897dd5b Paul Edited November 8, 2019 by hmrspaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, melmerby said: And the underframe is poor, rides at the wrong height and has cut-outs for first radius curves! Not a good place to start from IMHO The original Dapol version had a second underframe in the box without cut-outs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2019 6 hours ago, BernardTPM said: The original Dapol version had a second underframe in the box without cut-outs. But Hornby was specically mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, melmerby said: But Hornby was specically mentioned. Yes, I didn't disagree with you there, but the tooling is the old Dapol tooling, is it not? Hornby just don't make the better version of the underframe any more. There may also be those out there unaware that anything better was once available (and probably is, second hand). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I see. I am just starting from almost zero knowledge of these 12 wheelers. Good to know this diner was originally made by Dapol, especially with spare underframe. Might be the one to go for if I go down that route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2019 Do any of the sleepers survive in preservation? There was an 8w one on the north Norfolk used for volunteer accommodation but rotted and at the end was bloody awful and had to be scrapped as was full of asbestos so I assume the others are the same Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, russ p said: Do any of the sleepers survive in preservation? Survive is a questionable word. Most seem to be steadily rotting away, having outlived their usefulness as volunteer accommodation. Many (all?) seem to have had asbestos removed in the 80s. Details here: http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/search.asp - select SLF and pick out the BR/LMS 12-wheelers from the list. Edited November 9, 2019 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Continuing my attempt to drag coarse-scale tinplate into every possible discussion, here are some tin twelve trotters: Carette LNWR dining car, also produced post-WW1 in LMS livery in Northampton, using ex-Carette tooling. And a modern Darstaed TP rendition of an ex-LMS sleeping car. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Survive is a questionable word. Most seem to be steadily rotting away, having outlived their usefulness as volunteer accommodation. Many (all?) seem to have had asbestos removed in the 80s. Details here: http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/search.asp - select SLF and pick out the BR/LMS 12-wheelers from the list. Seems that preserved sleepers of anything other than mk3s are an endangered species. Mind having spent nights in the LNER one at Goathland and the LMS one at sheringham, both no longer around I can sort of see why 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Continuing my attempt to drag coarse-scale tinplate into every possible discussion, here are some tin twelve trotters: Carette LNWR dining car, also produced post-WW1 in LMS livery in Northampton, using ex-Carette tooling. RTR isn't what it used to be! Oh for a RTR 00 LNWR 12-wheeler! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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