1930s York Area

[MarshLane]

Hi all,

I am helping a friend with some research on operations at York in the 1930s.

 

He’s been told that the LNER Society produces a station working book for this decade (possibly 1934 I think he said) that contained details of local service formations. Does anyone have a copy who would be willing to either sell or photocopy/scan a small section? We are just looking to understand the make up of services from day 7am through to mid-day. Even a rough overview of sample workings would suffice.

 

Failing that, can anyone offer any insights into the locos and stock used on local services around this time? I believe it was mostly ex-NER vehicles still, and I am guessing the Gresley teak vehicles would have been long-distance workings only.

 

Any help, pointers or book directions would be appreciated. I’ve lent my friend my Steve Banks book for the long-distance trains!

 

Rich

[micknich2003]

Look on the North Eastern Rly Assoc website, you may find some useful publications.

[Aire Head]

While not being an expert on the area I have found through my own research into my interests is that a Decade is a long time when it comes to railways and that the amount of change that can happen in such a short time is massive!

 

Maybe if you could narrow it down a bit further it might help you find out what you want to know?

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

While not being an expert on the area I have found through my own research into my interests is that a Decade is a long time when it comes to railways and that the amount of change that can happen in such a short time is massive!

 

Maybe if you could narrow it down a bit further it might help you find out what you want to know?

Indeed!  Whilst the thread here is about 1930s York, if you consider the HST replaced the Deltics on key services from 1977, by 1987 the northern half of the ECML was being electrified.

 

Back in steam days if you look at pictures of engines you imagine very little changed but even then the railways were constantly updating themselves - Stirling Singles > 440s > A1s > A3s > A4s > Thompson A1s etc.

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

While not being an expert on the area I have found through my own research into my interests is that a Decade is a long time when it comes to railways and that the amount of change that can happen in such a short time is massive!

 

Maybe if you could narrow it down a bit further it might help you find out what you want to know?

 

Valid point!  We are looking at the 30s in general - but a lot is steered my a keen interest that we both have (my mate especially!) in the A4s and V2s, so 1935-37 would be the key time period.  

 

 

2 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

Look on the North Eastern Rly Assoc website, you may find some useful publications.

 

Thanks Mick, yes I think an order has been placed!!

 

Cheers

Rich

[DCB]

There were only about 45 V2s in 1937 and about 24 A4s so it was still very much an Atlantic era with 4-4-0s doing the secondary passenger work devolved to the B1s in later years  Add in the various 4-6-0s and you have a lot of kit and scratch building.   Even moving a few miles north or south of York changed the proportion of pre group locos quite substantially. I have a couple of engineman's reminiscences from the LNER Era somewhere, quite harrowing reading when cleaners were being laid off or sent labouring instead of working their way up through the ranks.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

There were only about 45 V2s in 1937 and about 24 A4s so it was still very much an Atlantic era with 4-4-0s doing the secondary passenger work devolved to the B1s in later years  Add in the various 4-6-0s and you have a lot of kit and scratch building.   Even moving a few miles north or south of York changed the proportion of pre group locos quite substantially. I have a couple of engineman's reminiscences from the LNER Era somewhere, quite harrowing reading when cleaners were being laid off or sent labouring instead of working their way up through the ranks.

I can remember 4-4-0s doing secondary work at York in the mid- late1950s - LNER design D49s which had replaced Pre-Group engines and in turn they gave way to DMUs.   There were 10 of them allocated to York in the 1930s when they were still fairly new engines.. 

[MarshLane]

Thanks David/Mike.

 

We are trying to track down a signalling plan from the semaphore era - which would be before the power signalling came in in 1938.  Does any one have any ideas where such a plan may exist?  I did think about contacting the NRM, but felt it was unlikely anyone would a) know, or b) have the time to go looking!

 

Rich

Edited November 9, 2019 by MarshLane

[Aire Head]

https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php

 

No guarantee they will have one but this site had a lot of signal diagrams from a few era and may have what your looking for. If not its certainly worth a read to try and gain more of an understanding of how signalling works.

[keefer]

Thought the s-r-s might have something but the only one I could see was the signalling notice for 3-9 March 1939. It shows semaphores and is a free download, so may be useful anyway:

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\lner&FileName=1939-06.pdf

 

(PDF document, diagrams on p.10-13 of 13)

[The Stationmaster]

A small scale version of York Loco Yard signal box diagram is on this site and the site gives ordering details if you want a proper size version -

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnerdiagrams.htm

 

I can't find any link to Platform Box anywhere but you've now got links for both ends.

Edited November 10, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[MarshLane]

21 hours ago, Aire Head said:

https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php

 

No guarantee they will have one but this site had a lot of signal diagrams from a few era and may have what your looking for. If not its certainly worth a read to try and gain more of an understanding of how signalling works.

 

Thanks for that. Yes I've looked at diagrams on that site quite often! Fascinating website for anyone with an interest in signalling.  Shame they took the forum offline (which was to do with spam being posted I think?), instead of just removing the ability to post.  There was a lot of useful info and background on it.

 

9 hours ago, keefer said:

Thought the s-r-s might have something but the only one I could see was the signalling notice for 3-9 March 1939. It shows semaphores and is a free download, so may be useful anyway:

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\lner&FileName=1939-06.pdf

 

(PDF document, diagrams on p.10-13 of 13)

 

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

A small scale version of York Loco Yard signal box diagram is on this site and the site gives ordering details if you want a proper size version -

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnerdiagrams.htm

 

I can't find any link to Platform Box anywhere but you've now got links for both ends.

 

Keefer/Mike, Many many thanks.  It hadn't occurred to me to look at the SRS - logical choice and I really should have done.  That PDF of March 1939 is fascinating.  I hadn't realised the number of boxes around York, even after the power signalling update.  Amazing.

[keefer]

Just as a tip for anyone else interested regarding the SRS site - the numerous signalbox diagrams are only small pics or are in the member's section (or can be purchased individually).

But if you go into Archive>Signalling Notices, they are often available as a free PDF download (usually to do with a signalling renewal, you get a few pages of info about the new signals with a plan on the last pages)

Of course, the choice of these is a tiny fraction of diagrams available and those for purchase aren't that expensive.