Heljan 7mm Prices

[delticfan]

Simple question, why do Dapol plan to sell their new Class 66 for circa £275 and Heljan charge more than double that for a similar size loco. Both specifications are similar. I wish Dapol would do more, I don’t feel like I’m getting ripped by them especially for shutters!

[truffy]

Simple answer, why would you expect anyone here to know about manufacturers' pricing structures?

[Dava]

Heljan always price high because they can, with discounts from Rails, Tower & Hattons. 2 years after launch you can pick up big clearance prices on remaining stocks, eg 05 & 128. But the ones you want may have sold out.

 

Dapol are keenly priced from the start and have more batches of different liveries. Minerva do 1 loco a year [this year class 14] priced in the middle, tend not to reissue.

 

Dava

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

My opinion (& that's all it is) is that Heljan came into O Scale when there was still a dominant view, even within the O community itself, that "If it's O Scale, it MUST be expensive".

The only alternatives to HJ RTR at the time were kits; all of which needed motors, wheels and gears adding to the cost. My view is that HJ priced their models "competitively" against the also up-&-coming (at the time) range of JLTRT kits, which might have been easier to build than traditional brass kits, but still needed the 'extras' adding, pushing uo the price further.

So against a price of £500 for a JLTRT kit, plus £100 minimum for motors, gears & wheels, plus the time to build it and the opportunity to ruin it with a bad paint job - a fully finished RTR Heljan diesel at £500, possibly discounted below that, looked like a bargain.

Heljan just priced to the market - which has now significantly shifted, and makes them look to be the expensive option at this time.

[Fenman]

25 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

My opinion (& that's all it is) is that Heljan came into O Scale when there was still a dominant view, even within the O community itself, that "If it's O Scale, it MUST be expensive".

The only alternatives to HJ RTR at the time were kits; all of which needed motors, wheels and gears adding to the cost. My view is that HJ priced their models "competitively" against the also up-&-coming (at the time) range of JLTRT kits, which might have been easier to build than traditional brass kits, but still needed the 'extras' adding, pushing uo the price further.

So against a price of £500 for a JLTRT kit, plus £100 minimum for motors, gears & wheels, plus the time to build it and the opportunity to ruin it with a bad paint job - a fully finished RTR Heljan diesel at £500, possibly discounted below that, looked like a bargain.

Heljan just priced to the market - which has now significantly shifted, and makes them look to be the expensive option at this time.

Heljan took a huge risk in entering — starting — this market (especially after the commercial failure of Hornby’s dabble with Bassett-Lowke). At the time, most commenters were shocked at how (relatively) cheap Heljan products were. I’m hoping Heljan’s risk-taking has been rewarded, and the fact they’re producing re-runs and upgraded versions of earlier releases suggests that it has been. 
 

But as is usual in threads about one manufacturer being more expensive than another, two things are glossed over: firstly, as truffy wrote, none of us knows the cost-bases of each manufacturer; and secondly, for most modellers or collectors who are buying products to a theme, there is no competition.

 

Unlike 00, there is only one 0 gauge manufacturer of an RTR class 37, or Terrier, or 08, or... I either buy it from that manufacturer, or I do without. Of course, that may now be changing, starting with Mk1s from multiple sources. 
 

Sustained price differentials may eventually drive some of the market (so we all end up with models or collections that are operated with Dapol equipment), but the hobby seems to me more driven by passions and enthusiasms. None of us *needs* a model, but we definitely *want* them. Therefore we’re likely to follow our whims: I will be buying several Claytons from Heljan, not twice as many Terriers from Dapol even though they’re ~half the price.
 

If I want a Clayton (and God knows I *really* want a Clayton), then there is no competition. I suck up the price, then enjoy the models. 
 

Paul

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Fenman
Schoolboy grammar

[Bernard Lamb]

Just take a look at the relation between the cost of living in the UK and the cost of living in Denmark.

Alternatively read the post by truffy.

Bernard

[Joseph_Pestell]

I rather doubt that the Dapol 66 will be quite that cheap by the time that it reaches us.

 

But that aside, I think that Dapol are exploiting the opportunity that Heljan have created. Nobody could be sure that there was enough demand in the O gauge market for mass-produced r-t-r diesel models. So Heljan and its retailers took quite a risk.

 

Now that the market is clearly there, Dapol are not taking anything like the same risk, especially with a loco that can be produced in so many liveries.

[Joseph_Pestell]

27 minutes ago, Fenman said:

Heljan took a huge risk in entering — starting — this market (especially after the commercial failure of Hornby’s dabble with Bassett-Lowke).

 

 

 

 

I don't see it as a valid comparison. Scale finely-detailed models on the one hand, deliberately retro coarse-scale models on the other.

 

I am not sure if coarse scale is ever going to appeal to a younger generation used to more realism in everything but I was surprised by the apparent lack of marketing effort that Hornby made with the Bassett-Lowke models. Perhaps the retailers were not supportive?

[birdseyecircus]

47 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I rather doubt that the Dapol 66 will be quite that cheap by the time that it reaches us.

 

 

 

 

Despite the long development of the 08 Dapol managed to keep to the original quoted price.

 

Paul

[Fenman]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I don't see it as a valid comparison. Scale finely-detailed models on the one hand, deliberately retro coarse-scale models on the other.

...

Perhaps that’s because you’re a purist?

 

Just as I would never dream of running Mk4s behind my Q1, it seems many model-buyers think differently.

 

Though maybe I’m now arguing against my original position that there is no direct competition between a low-priced Dapol Terrier and a higher-priced Heljan Clayton? Huh. 

 

Paul

 

 

[deltic17]

2 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

My opinion (& that's all it is) is that Heljan came into O Scale when there was still a dominant view, even within the O community itself, that "If it's O Scale, it MUST be expensive".

The only alternatives to HJ RTR at the time were kits; all of which needed motors, wheels and gears adding to the cost. My view is that HJ priced their models "competitively" against the also up-&-coming (at the time) range of JLTRT kits, which might have been easier to build than traditional brass kits, but still needed the 'extras' adding, pushing uo the price further.

So against a price of £500 for a JLTRT kit, plus £100 minimum for motors, gears & wheels, plus the time to build it and the opportunity to ruin it with a bad paint job - a fully finished RTR Heljan diesel at £500, possibly discounted below that, looked like a bargain.

Heljan just priced to the market - which has now significantly shifted, and makes them look to be the expensive option at this time.

 

I agree very much with your comments above.

 

I think one other thing is because HJ were brave enough to make O guage diesels in the first place they have pretty much covered all the classes now and taken the vast majority of the available market. Dapol have done really well with their 08 but if you want a 20,25,26,31,35,37,40,45,47,50,55 or 56 then it has to be HJ.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

12 hours ago, delticfan said:

Simple question, why do Dapol plan to sell their new Class 66 for circa £275 and Heljan charge more than double that for a similar size loco. Both specifications are similar.

Simple answer, it's very easy to announce an exciting low price. I am with Truffy. See what they actually cost when available. £85 more than their class 08, when it is easily double the content? Dream on...

[seeseerider]

The answer is us - the consumers. We've paid Heljan's kind of prices repeatedly, so why wouldn't they charge them again and again? Especially when there has been no real competition for the RTR British diesels. Dapol's 66 prices are extremely aggressive for what's being offered - given the existing market.

[RedgateModels]

7 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

My opinion (& that's all it is) is that Heljan came into O Scale when there was still a dominant view, even within the O community itself, that "If it's O Scale, it MUST be expensive".

The only alternatives to HJ RTR at the time were kits; all of which needed motors, wheels and gears adding to the cost. My view is that HJ priced their models "competitively" against the also up-&-coming (at the time) range of JLTRT kits, which might have been easier to build than traditional brass kits, but still needed the 'extras' adding, pushing uo the price further.

So against a price of £500 for a JLTRT kit, plus £100 minimum for motors, gears & wheels, plus the time to build it and the opportunity to ruin it with a bad paint job - a fully finished RTR Heljan diesel at £500, possibly discounted below that, looked like a bargain.

Heljan just priced to the market - which has now significantly shifted, and makes them look to be the expensive option at this time.

 

This ^