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BMacdermott

Results - The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019

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Hello Paul

 

Thanks for writing.

 

The 'Pig Iron' was listed new in 2015, probably at the suggestion of a voter, but it may have been The Team in our attempts to 'balance' various types.

 

Looking at the Don Rowland book, there were:

Diag.1/003 13-ton version

Diag.1/004 & Diag 1/007 two 20-ton designs

Diag.1/005 Hot Pig Iron 30-ton

 

The wagons within The Poll (no matter 'Hot' or not) have been consistently Low Polling. This year, they were =18th from bottom overall, so we won't be in any rush to list variants. Some of the basic designs were later amended to Coil Wagons, which would add even greater complexity and variation.

 

If anyone cares to write to us with why we should list any specific vehicle, we will always listen.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

 

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Hello everyone

 

Congratulations to Accurascale on the announcement of the Class 37!

 

This was one of the two items that came up with good votes in our Post-2005 Suggestions category.

 

We wish Fran and the team every success with this very interesting and wide-ranging project.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

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After perusing the results it's nice to see the only loco I really still have an itch for is polling in at #2 overall, the GWR Manor and also the Toplight coaches sitting 1st in coaches/16th overall.

 

What surprised me is the most prevalent Big 4 open wagon, the LMS D1666, polling so low. I would have thought that one would be a slam dunk for any manufacturer. Perhaps all those that are bothered by them have already built dozens of Cambrian kits and everyone else doesn't care about anything that isn't a shiny loco or coach.

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Hello 57xx

 

The LMS General Merchandise Wagon (Diag.1666) has always been Middle Polling, but is above the overall halfway mark. It was only a handful of votes outside High Polling this year, with only the LNER Grain Hopper, GWR Open Wagons and the Lowmac/Loriot Middle Polling above it in that category.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

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2 hours ago, 57xx said:

After perusing the results it's nice to see the only loco I really still have an itch for is polling in at #2 overall, the GWR Manor and also the Toplight coaches sitting 1st in coaches/16th overall.

 

What surprised me is the most prevalent Big 4 open wagon, the LMS D1666, polling so low. I would have thought that one would be a slam dunk for any manufacturer. Perhaps all those that are bothered by them have already built dozens of Cambrian kits and everyone else doesn't care about anything that isn't a shiny loco or coach.

 

I suspect that part of the issue is that many of us (and I include myself in that) simply aren't as knowledgeable about wagons as we are about coaches and, in particular, locos. And the things we do know about tend to be more the oddities and esoterics rather than the everyday wagons.

 

I would love to see some more variants of bog-standard open wagons and vans. It would be nice to see PO wagons, for example, that aren't just different liveries but also cover a range of RCH designs. And I want some ex-GER designs, too, for my W&U themed layout! But I suspect I'll have to wait for those (or build them from kits), because it's the sort of thing that RTR manufacturers are unlikely to prioritise - they'll just be "filler" releases alongside the headline announcements every year.

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2 hours ago, 57xx said:

After perusing the results it's nice to see the only loco I really still have an itch for is polling in at #2 overall, the GWR Manor and also the Toplight coaches sitting 1st in coaches/16th overall.

 

What surprised me is the most prevalent Big 4 open wagon, the LMS D1666, polling so low. I would have thought that one would be a slam dunk for any manufacturer. Perhaps all those that are bothered by them have already built dozens of Cambrian kits and everyone else doesn't care about anything that isn't a shiny loco or coach.

 

Exactly. If there is already a decent kit available why would I want a RTR version? 

 

It is supposed to be what you would buy after all. There are a few exceptions where there isn't a kit available such as the milk tankers that I did vote for. But I'm not going to vote for items I don't want or need. That's a bit unfair on both the manufacturers and other voters.

 

 

 

 

Jason

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On 17/11/2019 at 02:57, The Johnster said:

There's been two of them in the last few years, both not considered successful.  The 14xx seems to be something of a poisoned chalice and it will be interesting to see if anyone else takes it on.   It should be a sure fire success, but...

 

As a slight off-topic, Wizard Models are currently running another batch of the Mainly Trains 14xx upgrade kit. Andrew Hartshorne of Wizard is (apparently) awaiting a fresh batch of chimneys, ready for the new year.

 

Ian.

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4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

... If there is already a decent kit available why would I want a RTR version?...

 A personal choice thing. Very happy to build kits in ones or twos, but good models of the really common vehicles like the general merchandise opens and vans built in quantity are very handy to make trainloads, lightly 'seasoned' with a few less common examples from kits. I wouldn't have bothered at all with OO had Bachmann not produced a 'proficient kitbuilder' standard 16T mineral. I want to model mainline railway operations, not run the wagon building shop...

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8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 A personal choice thing. Very happy to build kits in ones or twos, but good models of the really common vehicles like the general merchandise opens and vans built in quantity are very handy to make trainloads, lightly 'seasoned' with a few less common examples from kits. I wouldn't have bothered at all with OO had Bachmann not produced a 'proficient kitbuilder' standard 16T mineral. I want to model mainline railway operations, not run the wagon building shop...

I definitely agree on the 16-ton minerals! :rolleyes: I was quite thankful when I realised I'd not have to build any more Dia. 1/108s.

 

Something I wouldn't mind seeing r-t-r, and a suggestion not allowed for in the format of the poll, would be a merchandise open modelled with a wagon sheet/tarpaulin in place, as has been done (much more convincingly than I can manage) with a few cast resin kits in 7mm scale over the years.

 

Possibly one for a 3D-print body a la the Rails SECR van so the cover detail can be varied with each run?

 

John

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Good to see the SR W tank creeping up!  Surely Bachmann can hack an N chassis about a bit and reshape the cylinder casings?  There aren't any real ones to measure but the NRM just might have the drawings.

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On 19/11/2019 at 18:23, Steamport Southport said:

 

Exactly. If there is already a decent kit available why would I want a RTR version? 

OTOH, if there is already a decent RTR available, why would I want a kit version.  I use kits to build wagons that are not available, either at all or to an acceptable standard, RTR; for example I have a Parkside ex-SNCF 'cupboard door' steel mineral wagon because it is the only one available, and intend to build a Parkside Fruit D because it has better planking and a much better chassis than the Dapol ex-Hornby Dublo one.  

 

I like Parkside kits but they are almost as expensive as RTR by the time you've painted and finished them.  Never built a Cambrian, so can't comment except that there is nothing in the range that leaps out as essential for my layout.

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9 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

Good to see the SR W tank creeping up!  Surely Bachmann can hack an N chassis about a bit and reshape the cylinder casings?  There aren't any real ones to measure but the NRM just might have the drawings.

I couldn't imagine that, as the Bachmann N is now pretty ancient, and just about the earliest loco remaining in their range so all-new tooling would be necessary. On past form, Southern locos seldom seem to come in blue boxes though....  

 

There have been (and are) good kits for the W so the information is clearly available.

 

I thought it a bit odd that, of two numerically small classes, the G16 4-8-0T, which had a very restricted sphere of operation, polled higher than the (not dissimilar) H16 4-6-2T, which got around far more. 

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

I thought it a bit odd that, of two numerically small classes, the G16 4-8-0T, which had a very restricted sphere of operation, polled higher than the (not dissimilar) H16 4-6-2T, which got around far more. 

 

John

 

Hello John

 

Below is how the G16 and H16 have fared in the past and up to this year. It is worth noting that the Z and W are both in The Top 50 now.

 

2013

H16 slightly more votes than G16 but both in Low Polling. 12 votes between them.

 

2014

G16 sightly more votes than H16, but both in Low Polling. 14 votes between them.

 

2015

H16 and G16, both now Middle Polling and both with exactly the same number of votes.

 

2016

G16 slightly more votes than H16, both still in Middle Polling. 8 votes between them.

 

2018 

G16 has moved up to lower echelons of High Polling with H16 towards bottom of Middle Polling. 23 votes between them.

 

2019

G16 has moved up in High Polling with H16 now towards top end of Middle Polling. 31 votes between them.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

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On 19/11/2019 at 15:26, BMacdermott said:

The LMS General Merchandise Wagon (Diag.1666) has always been Middle Polling, but is above the overall halfway mark. It was only a handful of votes outside High Polling this year, with only the LNER Grain Hopper, GWR Open Wagons and the Lowmac/Loriot Middle Polling above it in that category.

 

 

Some things are just too ordinary and ubiquitous to compete with the obscure and unusual*.

 

Now that hot pig wagon - some sort of steam heated cattle wagon? I'm afraid I'm not well up on BR-era wagons.

 

*I'm not including GW opens in that category!)

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I reckon you could make a Leader by jacking up a 1938 stock Tube driving car, cutting a door in the side and spraying it grey.  You can use one of the dummy display models, as the prototype rarely worked anyway :-)

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29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Some things are just too ordinary and ubiquitous to compete with the obscure and unusual*.

 

Now that hot pig wagon - some sort of steam heated cattle wagon? I'm afraid I'm not well up on BR-era wagons.

 

*I'm not including GW opens in that category!)

 

Hello Compound2632

 

Full details were given in The Guide as below.

 

Brian (on behalf of the 00 Poll Team)

 

BR Hot Pig Iron Wagon (Diag.1/005 of 1956)

Pig Iron Wagons were a descendant of the BR Lowfit, but Diag.1/005 was an ‘all-new’ design. BR Shildon

built 140 in 1956. Many were converted for strip coil in the 1960s.

Link: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brhotpigiron/h331f506f#h2fc6bdf8

 

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2 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Compound2632

 

Full details were given in The Guide as below.

 

Brian (on behalf of the 00 Poll Team)

 

BR Hot Pig Iron Wagon (Diag.1/005 of 1956)

Pig Iron Wagons were a descendant of the BR Lowfit, but Diag.1/005 was an ‘all-new’ design. BR Shildon

built 140 in 1956. Many were converted for strip coil in the 1960s.

Link: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brhotpigiron/h331f506f#h2fc6bdf8

 

 

I was wilfully misunderstanding, you know!

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11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I was wilfully misunderstanding, you know!

 

Hello Compound2632

 

And how was I to know that?

 

Brian

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1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Compound2632

 

And how was I to know that?

 

Brian

 

My apologies. I assumed the idea of a steam heated cattle wagon to keep pigs hot in transit was evidently absurd.

 

But, seriously, such a vehicle would presumably be for internal use only (in steelworks etc., not abattoirs) and not seen on he main line?

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Hello Compound2632

 

I was basing my reply on your statement (viz): I'm afraid I'm not well up on BR-era wagons.

 

It was a BR diagram. Paul Bartlett said the following a few posts back (towards bottom of Page 6).

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

A very strange idea. Personally I think the Hot pig is an interesting wagon and I was pleased, with Trev Mann, to measure one. BUT photos of them in traffic are very rare and the Coil conversion was heavily chopped around so not easy to say a model could be used for both. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brhotpigiron

 

The standard Pig Iron - as modelled by Peco in 7mm - would be a much better prototype - with a long life with many used for coil traffic in South Wales. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brpigiron

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoilc

 

 

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12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

OTOH, if there is already a decent RTR available, why would I want a kit version.  I use kits to build wagons that are not available, either at all or to an acceptable standard, RTR; for example I have a Parkside ex-SNCF 'cupboard door' steel mineral wagon because it is the only one available, and intend to build a Parkside Fruit D because it has better planking and a much better chassis than the Dapol ex-Hornby Dublo one.  

 

I like Parkside kits but they are almost as expensive as RTR by the time you've painted and finished them.  Never built a Cambrian, so can't comment except that there is nothing in the range that leaps out as essential for my layout.

 

Apart from some of the recent offerings, are there that many decent RTR wagons available? Not a comment about kits being better than RTR as there are some excellent RTR wagons and some poor kits, just that wagons have always been the poor relation in general.

 

Many have incorrect wheelbases, steel chassis when it should be wooden, poor representations of brake gear, poor buffers, poor quality wheels, moulded tension lock couplings, often need repainting, etc. One manufacturer even got the sides wrong on a recent RTR model of a Cattle wagon, which was lauded as being an excellent model in some quarters.

 

Just my take on things - YMMV

 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

My apologies. I assumed the idea of a steam heated cattle wagon to keep pigs hot in transit was evidently absurd.

 

But, seriously, such a vehicle would presumably be for internal use only (in steelworks etc., not abattoirs) and not seen on he main line?

 

For transfer from site to site, so main line. They dropped the "pigs" into the wagon when hot and they were allowed to cool naturally on the journey.

 

Mainly a Scottish and North Eastern thing I believe. I know the Caledonian and NBR had a lot of pig iron wagons. I assume the BR version was to replace life expired ones.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/?s=pig&post_type=product

 

 

Jason

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There are far too many gross inaccuracies in steam era wagons.  Hornby and Dapol have yet to produce a mineral wagon with the correct wheelbase, and Dapol still has generically Hornby Dublo wagons in it's range.  I have minimum standards, and brake levers must be separate and not moulded solid with the chassis.  Brake blocks must be in line with the wheels, which is of course actually incorrect if you are modelling in 00 and can only be achieved in P4, but it annoys me that Hornby are knocking out Airfix auto trailers with bogies whose brake blocks claw uselessly at fresh air when other coaches in the range have suitable bogies to a much better standard.  I also nowadays insist on NEM coupling mounts.  

 

Kits are at least usually accurate and meet my standards, even the old Airfix wagon construction kits now marketed by Dapol under the Kitmaster label.  I have a meat van from this range and my only complaint about it is the crudity of the door hinges, not beyond the wit of man or even Johnster to cut off and replace with plastic strip. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

For transfer from site to site, so main line. They dropped the "pigs" into the wagon when hot and they were allowed to cool naturally on the journey.

 

Mainly a Scottish and North Eastern thing I believe. I know the Caledonian and NBR had a lot of pig iron wagons. I assume the BR version was to replace life expired ones.

 

 

I live and learn. Scope for an interesting DCC feature there? Red hot ingot gradually cooling.

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Not sure they were glowing red hot when they were loaded, not that you'd want to touch one; surely that would have resulted in their distorting out of shape, but DCC rain hissing and boiling when it hit them, and a bit of general steam, would be possible.

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