LMS articulated railcar drawings

[rue_d_etropal]

I am trying to find drawings for the LMS articulated railcar. I have found photos of models online, so presume someone must have found a drawing.

On doing gimp on one photo, I have got a feeling of size, but windows come out smaller  than standard LMS ones. I want to design a model for 3D printing.

Edited November 9, 2019 by rue_d_etropal

[Tony Cane]

I have a reference to an article being in the April 15 1938 supplement of the Railway Gazette, but cannot confirm it includes a drawing.

[rue_d_etropal]

I suspect drawings are rare as David Jenkinson could only find a couple for his books on LMS coaches, and one of these is incorrect , and the other is just the underframe. It soundslike the Railway Gazette one might be the one printed in book, which is incorrect in some obvious ways so would be worried aboud detail which was not obvious.

Edited November 9, 2019 by rue_d_etropal
spell check

[phil_sutters]

I thought that I had seen an article in Railway Magazine 1928 with the LMSR rail car but it was the 4 car version - unarticulated. There is, however, a nice drawing in the same article of a diesel-electric railcar for the San Sebastian - Pamplona  Railway!

[Keith Halton]

I've just seen this thread. There was a good description of the articulated DMU in Model Railway News in 1938. I've attached a PDF of it. There is a diagram showing how the articulation coped with curves, but no elevation drawings. There is a good photo of the train and several dimensions are quoted in the text. There's also some information about it in the RCTS LMS Locos book on the diesels.

I recently wrote an article for a local transport society magazine comparing it with the modern Stadler FLIRT bi-mode units now working for Greater Anglia, it made an interesting comparison.

LMS_DMU_MRN_article_May_1938.pdf

[Michael Hodgson]

Thank you for that particularly the approach to articulation.  Quite ahead of its time.

[Keith Halton]

I think the LMS design was actually too complicated and I don't think the idea of bogie frame extensions to shift the pivot point to be under the coaches was used anywhere else. The new Stadler trains on Greater Anglia use Jacobs bogies, in which the adjacent coaches (or power module) share a common pivot point in the middle of the bogie. It does compromise the kinematic envelope of the train more than the LMS system but it has been widely used. If you want to know what a Stadler Jacobs bogie looks like, see https://bahnbilder.ch/picture/9850. Another interesting feature of the LMS train was that the engines were mounted under the body but powered the axles of the articulating bogies. The bogies at the ends of the train were not powered. By comparison, only the end bogies of the Stadler trains are powered; the Jacobs bogies are not.

[Grovenor]

31 minutes ago, Keith Halton said:

 Another interesting feature of the LMS train was that the engines were mounted under the body but powered the axles of the articulating bogies. The bogies at the ends of the train were not powered.

Not quite correct, the inner axles of the end bogies were also poweed, 6 axles in all with 6 engines, 2 per car body.

I remember looking over the remnants in Longsight depot in the early '60s. The centre car had been removed and the two end car bodies rebuilt for use on the electrification, most of the floor was missing and the 4 remaining engines could be seen. It was dumped by then and I suspect that it had very little use in its modified form given that the electrification had barely got past Crewe at that time. I was on work experience with BR and the task at Longsight involved commissioning tests on the new GEC AC locos.

[Keith Halton]

13 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Not quite correct, the inner axles of the end bogies were also poweed, 6 axles in all with 6 engines, 2 per car body.

 

Sorry, my mistake,  the MRN article does say 6 axles were powered. Thanks for correcting this. You must be one of very few enthusiasts who were able to inspect the train. I have a two page article from Railways about the rebuild, I'll post this later.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 30/01/2021 at 20:45, Grovenor said:

It was dumped by then and I suspect that it had very little use in its modified form given that the electrification had barely got past Crewe at that time. I was on work experience with BR and the task at Longsight involved commissioning tests on the new GEC AC locos.

My understanding was that it was used for maintenance rather than new work, and on the 1500vDC electrification in the north-west - Manchester-Altrincham in particular, rather than after conversion to 25kV when the life-expired units needed replacement