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ESU Decoder tester - help required


LTechG
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Recently purchased a ESU 53900 Decoder Tester but problem when connected to my DCC controller, a Gaugemaster Prodigy Express.

Have connected the tester to the programming track output as per the instructions, but can only programme decoder number.

Track leds flicker for a few seconds and then extinguish.

Unable to test any other aspect: lights, motor, direction etc.

When using the DCC controller normally (connected to the programming track/layout, can only programme the decoder number on the programming track - to operate direction, lights, acceleration etc, have to place loco on main layout).

Can I connect ESU Decoder tester to the main layout output of the Prodigy Express controller for testing other functions?

Thought I might ask the more experienced, before risking damaging the tester.

Many thanks,

Stephen 

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It should be ok, just remember you will be able to write CV's but not read them on the main.

 

I use a sprog3 and DecoderPro with mine, much easier than swapping connections as not only can it read and write on the programming track but can also run one loco for testing motor, lights, sound etc.

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I have my ESU tester rigged to both Prog and Track connections of my controller via a DPDT switch so I can program then test run without having to faff with swapping wires.

 

In general per NMRA a Prog output cannot have enough oomph to run motor or lights, but you may see the loco kick or lights flicker during programming as the decoder sends an acknowledgement of programming instructions.

 

The reason the ESU tester lights flicker is because programming output is only live during actual command send in accordance with NMRA rules and regs.

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6 hours ago, LTechG said:

Have connected the tester to the programming track output as per the instructions, but can only programme decoder number.

 

You should be able to program any CV, not just the address.

 

6 hours ago, LTechG said:

Track leds flicker for a few seconds and then extinguish.

 

That's a signal from the decoder that it has received the programming command.

 

6 hours ago, LTechG said:

Unable to test any other aspect: lights, motor, direction etc.

When using the DCC controller normally (connected to the programming track/layout, can only programme the decoder number on the programming track - to operate direction, lights, acceleration etc, have to place loco on main layout).

Can I connect ESU Decoder tester to the main layout output of the Prodigy Express controller for testing other functions?

 

That would be a bit pointless since you mention placing the loco on the main track. To use the tester you would need to take the decoder out of the loco again. If you have successfully changed the address then it's generally safe to use the loco on the main track. You can run it and test the lights, etc.

 

f the prodigy Express supports it then you can use "ops mode" or "programming on the main" to change other setting, but you can only write to them, not read them back.

 

2 hours ago, RAF96 said:

In general per NMRA a Prog output cannot have enough oomph to run motor or lights, but you may see the loco kick or lights flicker during programming as the decoder sends an acknowledgement of programming instructions.

 

That's not strictly true. The original spec was for simply "limited current" with no limit actually specified. The current spec is a bit strange "Service Mode operations should be performed in an environment with limited energy to prevent damage to decoders during programming. For the purposes of this RP, limited energy is defined as 250 mA, sustained for more than 100 ms." I think that wording is open to some  interpretation. 

 

2 hours ago, RAF96 said:

 

The reason the ESU tester lights flicker is because programming output is only live during actual command send in accordance with NMRA rules and regs.

 

Again, not strictly true. There's nothing in the NMRA service mode standard that says power has to be turned off between programming operations. It's just safer if done that way in case of a fault decoder installation. As soon as you have been able to successfully program one CV it's generally safe to assume all is OK. Turning the power off after every operation is a belt and braces approach that most systems implement.

 

 

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That's why I use the Sprog3 with decoder pro, it can read and write in low power programming mode but you can then open a throttle and the run that loco without changing anything, so good for testing settings on the fly without lead swapping or switches etc.

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry guys, I'm having a complete brain fade. I bought an ESU 53900 decoder tester a year or so ago and have completely forgotten what to do to test a decoder. The instructions are pretty vague, but like a lot of technical stuff if you don't do these things regularly, you can completely forget what to do. 

 

I have a brand new 8 pin Zimo decoder and have plugged that into the 8 pin socket on the board. I have a harness connecting the tester to my ECoS programming track output and the two green leds are lit showing power is there, but then I have a complete blank as to how to test the decoder......:D

 

Any help appreciated...

 

Perhaps it's time to hang up my boots...:D

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7 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Sorry guys, I'm having a complete brain fade. I bought an ESU 53900 decoder tester a year or so ago and have completely forgotten what to do to test a decoder. The instructions are pretty vague, but like a lot of technical stuff if you don't do these things regularly, you can completely forget what to do. 

 

I have a brand new 8 pin Zimo decoder and have plugged that into the 8 pin socket on the board. I have a harness connecting the tester to my ECoS programming track output and the two green leds are lit showing power is there, but then I have a complete blank as to how to test the decoder......:D

 

Any help appreciated...

 

Perhaps it's time to hang up my boots...:D

Call up loco 3 while the tester is connected to the track output of your controller. You should be able to “drive” the decoder tester as if it was a loco. Motor, lights, sounds should all operate as if the decoder was in a loco instead of the tester.

 Effectively the tester is a loco with no wheels!

Andi

Edited by Dagworth
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The decoder tester is intended for decoders that have yet to be installed in a loco, or can easily be removed from the loco for testing. As Andi has already said, the tester "stands in" for the loco in that it has a motor, a speaker and LEDs. You cannot use it to test a decoder that is installed in a loco.

 

To test a decoder you connect the decoder to the tester and connect the tester to the main track out or to the programming track. When connected to the main track you call up the decoder just as if it was installed in a loco using its address, and "drive" the decoder from your command station in exactly the same way that you would drive a loco on your layout or on a rolling road. This lets you check that the motor output, sounds and lights are all working correctly before you install the decoder. You can program any CVs that allow POM.

 

When connected to the programming track output on your command station, you can program all CVs just as if the decoder was installed in a loco sitting on your programming track. If your programming track output allows, you can "test drive" the decoder.

Edited by GoingUnderground
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OK, this one really has me beat. I have a few brand new Zimo MX623R decoders and a new Hornby A2/2 locomotive. I've been running the loco on DC for hours without a problem.

 

1. Loco runs perfectly on DC.

 

2. Plug in brand new Zimo Decoder into loco and when I use my ECoS programming track it gives an immediate dead short.

 

3. Remove the decoder and switch on ECoS again with loco on programming track and without blanking plug and all is fine. 

 

4. Thought I would test the decoder even though brand new, hence my question above.

 

5. Opened another new decoder to swap over and same result, so assume decoders are fine.

 

6. Unscrewed tender socket to ensure no shorts in the tender from the socket, but same result.

 

7. Started to buzz the socket through (without the decoder fitted) and red wire (rail right) in pin 8 connects to track, but also connects to pin 7 which is Common +.

 

8. Orange wire (motor right) connects to pin 1, but also connects to grey wire (motor left) in pin 5.

 

9. Black wire (rail left) goes to Pin 4.

 

Something very strange is going on as with the blanking plug in place, loco runs perfectly. Plug in new decoder and dead short.

 

Surprised pins 1 and 5 appear connected together as are pin 8 and 7.

 

Been staring at this for an hour or so and it's as if I have never fitted a decoder. If the internal wiring is haywire, why would it work on DC and show a dead short on DCC? 

 

Any ideas? 

 

Tell me I'm not going daft......:D

Edited by gordon s
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The test programme I had completely forgotten about was in the ECoS itself under Advanced in the loco programming mode. This steps though every function and completely tests the decoder. Just tested both decoders and they are fine and function perfectly.

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Your point (7).   If with no blanking plug, or no decoder fitted, there is a path from pickup (pin 8) to blue (pin 7), there is a potential problem. 

 

Your point (8).  There will be a low-resistance path from orange(pin1) to grey(pin5) via the motor.  Somewhere in the 40ohm region (give or take quite a lot, depends on motor).  

 

So, initial suspect is what you found in point (7).  

 

Yes, it is possible to have a loco run on DC with blanking plug inserted, and fail on DCC.  The blanking plug connects several pins together, and if those were connected via a wiring mistake in the loco, the blanking plug is just duplicating those erroneous paths in the loco wiring.  

 

You can check the decoder (removed from loco) in the decoder tester, as discussed above.  Hopefully it survived the encounter.  But the problem appears to be in the loco.  

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

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6 minutes ago, gordon s said:

OK, this one really has me beat. I have a few brand new Zimo MX623R decoders and a new Hornby A2/2 locomotive. I've been running the loco on DC for hours without a problem.

 

1. Loco runs perfectly on DC.

 

2. Plug in brand new Zimo Decoder into loco and use my ECoS programming track it gives an immediate dead short.

 

3. Remove the decoder and switch on ECoS again with loco on programming track and without blanking plug and all is fine. 

 

4. Thought I would test the decoder even though brand new, hence my question above.

 

5. Opened another new decoder to swap over and same result, so assume decoders are fine.

 

6. Unscrewed tender socket to ensure no shorts in the tender from the socket, but same result.

 

7. Started to buzz the socket through (without the decoder fitted) and red wire (rail right) in pin 8 connects to track, but also connects to pin 7 which is Common +.

 

8. Orange wire (motor right) connects to pin 1, but also connects to grey wire (motor left) in pin 5.

 

9. Black wire (rail left) goes to Pin 4.

 

Something very strange is going on as with the blanking plug in place, loco runs perfectly. Plug in new decoder and dead short.

 

Surprised pins 1 and 5 appear connected together as are pin 8 and 7.

 

Been staring at this for an hour or so and it's if I have never fitted a decoder. If the internal wiring is haywire, why would it work on DC and show a dead short on DCC? 

 

Any ideas? 

 

Tell me I'm not going daft......:D

Have you put the decoder in the tester and tried "driving" it? 

 

if it works fine in the tester, the motor turns and accelerates and decelerates as you increase and decrease the speed, then the decoder is fine. In which case you need to check that there are no stray filaments of wire or solder bridging the sockets on the underside of the 8 pin socket on the loco. Also check when the decoder is plugged in to the loco that the ends of the pins aren't touching any bare wires or chassis metalwork.

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Many thanks to you all for your ideas and suggestions. In all my years of fitting decoders, I have never had one that performed beautifully on DC yet a dead short on DCC. I did look at the socket, but didn't see the stray wire until I had seen a close up photograph.

 

Loco running like a dream now....:drink_mini:

Edited by gordon s
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