Passenger locos for Birkenhead?

[webbcompound]

I know there are complete shed listings at Kew, but I can no longer get there, so does anyone have access to them , or other information , on what loco classes would be available to run passenger trains in and out of Birkenhead  around 1905 and 1910? I have a dim recollection from looking at the shed listings some time back that there was quite a change  in types of loco allocated in the North between these times, and I am aware that many of the 3571class was used on local traffic on the West Kirby line, but what was used for the main line services?

[Brassey]

I have some listings for 1912 that are arranged by engine number not by allocation.  If you are genuinely interested in building a certain class then I can see whether any of that class were allocated to Birkenhead or indeed Chester.  Unlike the LNWR, the GWR did not issue its numbers so randomly so most are arranged by class but there are about 3,000 numbers to go through.

 

As this was a joint line, the LNWR had a presence but you may have that information already.

[Ian Smeeton]

Nothing early enough here:

 

https://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2013/01/birkenhead-1956-1960.html

 

But may be of interest anyway.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Brassey]

The LNWR tender passenger locos were as follows:

 

Birkenhead - 18

1912

‘Small Jumbo’ 35 Talisman, 486 Skiddaw

 

London Road Models provide a kit for these in 4mm

 

All the other LNWR locos at Birkenhead were either tank engines, probably engaged on the Manchester services, or goods engines.

[JimC]

In the absence of a post with better detail, Cox, in "Chronicles of steam" notes that at the time of WW1 Chester and Birkenhead saw "a weird assortment of Dean and other products whose main characteristics seemed to be outside frames, huge domes and incredibly narrow cabs." Various 2-4-0s seems likely, RCTS is not ideal for allocation detail, but your date range seems to be the sort of period where the last of the much renewed early absorbed stock was going, together with the earlier Armstrong classes. The 111 class is specifically mentioned  for working to Birkenhead,  but they went 03-05. Thereafter the book notes 3226, 439 and 3201s as having representatives in the Chester area. Not much help I'm afraid, sorry.

[webbcompound]

thanks for replies. I should have said GWR locos (though this is a GWR thread) as I have the LNWR stuff. The offer of 1912 details is very nice, but I suspect by then things had changed from the period shortly after 05. Looks like the 3226 series of the 111 class Armstrong 240s might be possibles. No chance of a kit of course so would have to be scratchbuilt. There is a drawing in Russel's GWR Engines.

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by webbcompound

[Brassey]

This is a pic of a GWR 2-4-0 3240 at Manchester Exchange.  It has probably come from Birkenhead and is being turned for the return Journey.  It looks to me to be in the pre-1906 Indian Red livery.  I do not know the date of the photo but might be within your time frame.  In 1912 3240 was indeed shedded at Birkenhead by which time at had acquired a B4 Belpaire boiler instead of the round top pictured.  The 3232 class is in the Martin Finney range now sold by Brassmasters and would avoid scratch building.

 

Tender engines coming from Birkenhead heading for Manchester were facing the right direction whereas the GWR expresses heading West via Shrewsbury required a reversal at Chester so I think it is likely that a Chester engine took them forward from there and maybe a more lowly engine brought them out of Birkenhead.

 

[JimC]

9 hours ago, webbcompound said:

Looks like the 3226 series of the 111 class Armstrong 240s might be possibles. No chance of a kit of course so would have to be scratchbuilt. There is a drawing in Russel's GWR Engines.

Unfortunately that one shows a 1915 Swindon boiler with top feed, so you'll need to do a bit of bringing together for your period. The drawing in Russell is from Maskelyne's Locomotives I have known, where its reproduced on a larger scale and more readably.

[webbcompound]

Well I think, all things considered for the 1905 end of things I will have to get the Finney kit of the 3232, and I think unless I find out otherwise that it might evenget the dome oin the front ring of an S2 boiler. So I'd better start saving the pennies. That still leaves me to find out what is likely for 1910

[JimC]

The Stellas had moved to Chester in good numbers by 1915 according to RCTS, so one around 1910 doesn't seem impossible.  So you could save up for two Finney kits!

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by JimC

[Brassey]

The RCTS "The Birkenhead Railway" states: GW '3571' class 3577 worked from October 1895 to March 1949.  In February 1912, 3577 was at Birkenhead.  3580 was also at Birkenhead that year...from 1907 the 3571's were augmented by Metro classes displaced from the London suburban lines electrification.  

 

At the turn of the century, tank engines generally took over from tender engines; 517's as well as the Metros.  Herewith at Heswall with a 517 in charge of LNWR stock:

 

 

"The larger passenger engines shedded at Chester rarely, if ever, saw Birkenhead and the Paddington expresses could be headed by almost anything from either company over this section."

 

"The vacuum braked goods which the GW pioneered around the turn of the century were hauled by passenger engines."

Edited November 11, 2019 by Brassey