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King William IV - running problem?


AyJay
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I have just noticed a problem with one of my locomotives, Hornby R3409 'King William IV'.

I think that I have only noticed it now, because I have another King, so this one does not get run very often.

 

When run, it sounds as though the wheels are not correctly positioned on the rails, for there is a rumbling sound as the locomotive runs.  

Yet when looking closely, I found that all the wheels were correctly positioned.

However, The rearmost set of driving wheels appeared to be oscillating as they went round, as if the wheel is not fitting 'squarely' on its axle.

When looking at the underside of the locomotive, I noticed that there is more play on the movement of the rear driving axle, than there is on the other two; to the point where I can pivot the wheelset slightly in the horizontal plane. It also have more up-down movement.

 

The locomotive has never been dropped or in any way handled carelessly.  There is no indication of any damage. Yet the difference in the amount of 'play' between the wheelsets is noticeable. 

 

I am running on Peco finescale flexible track which has been ballasted; all of my other locomotives run well on the track.

 

I have just sent off my query to Hornby and will be interested to hear what they say.  But I would also like to see if anyone else has this, or a similar, locomotive and have they experienced this problem too?

 

Thanks.

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Might be an assembly problem. I had a steam model to look at some years ago which a friend described as 'running oddly', and that proved to be caused by one of the brass bearing collars not located in the designed recess in the chassis block. As a result the sideplay was restricted, but the axle could slop about vertically and horizontally one side.

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The real King William IV probably had running problems as well; he was getting on a bit when he came to the throne...

 

With the loco upside down, take the 'keeper plate', the plastic moulding that the pickups are attached to and that holds the wheels in place when you pick the loco up, off, CAREFULLY because the pickup feed wires are soldered to it.  It is held by small cross head screws; use the correct size screwdriver to avoid damaging the screw heads, and be careful not to lose the screws.  I push mine into a lump of blu tac to keep them from making a break for the border or sacrificing themselves to the carpet monster.

 

With the keeper plate off, you can examine the bottom of the chassis.  Lift each wheelset out in turn, making certain that the piston rods stay safely inside the cylinders (not a disaster if they come out, but faffy to replace) and have a look at the state of the axles and the channels they run in.  Check that they are free of anything that shouldn't be there, and clean them if you think they need it.  Relube very sparingly, using the bare minimum amount you can get away with, and put the axle back making sure that the brass bearings slot correctly into the rebates in the chassis block (they are prone to wandering along the axle, which will affect the running and possibly cause the rumbling you describe).  

 

With the bearings all sitting correctly in their slots, you can put the keeper plate back on.  This is a fiddly thing to do, as you have line the plate up correctly with the tapped screw holes in the chassis block and, at the same time, persuade the pickups to sit correctly, bearing on the back of the wheels.  When you have got it in place, replace the screws which you haven't lost because you put them in a lump of blu tac, didn't you?  Do them up tight, but not too tight as the keeper plate may bear on the axles or too loose as the axles will have too much play.  Test run the loco, which should be a lot smoother now.  

 

If this doesn't cure your rumbling KW4, you have at least eliminated some of the possible causes.  Please, bear with me if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs!  Hope it isn't Mazak rot, as this is pretty much a deal breaker and the loco is going to only be any further use cannibalised for spares.  Mazak rot is not connected to usage, it is simply a matter of time...

Edited by The Johnster
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  • 2 months later...

I finally found out what the problem was.....  and it was not what I expected!

The tender wheels are not suitable for finescale track. the flanges are too large.  This would explain the 'apparent' appearance of the problem, as I had only previously run the loco on code 100 track,  This was it's first time on my current layout.  

Unfortunately,  Hornby do not have the correct replacement wheels,  so it's coming with me on my next outing, to see a 'trader of wheels'.

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Is this an old Tender drive loco?   If so it might not be possible to make it code 75 compatible,  I have turned these wheels down in the past but the thick traction tyres and thin flanges aren't a good mix staying on the track wise.   The current loco drive one is much better in many respects than the tender drive though sadly nothing like as strong when it comes to pulling trains.

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On 28/01/2020 at 13:22, AyJay said:

I finally found out what the problem was.....  and it was not what I expected!

The tender wheels are not suitable for finescale track. the flanges are too large.  This would explain the 'apparent' appearance of the problem, as I had only previously run the loco on code 100 track,  This was it's first time on my current layout.  

Unfortunately,  Hornby do not have the correct replacement wheels,  so it's coming with me on my next outing, to see a 'trader of wheels'.

 

Are you sure? I'm taking this is a model bought new and hasn't had replacement wheels added by someone else.

 

I'm thinking more an assembly problem or "dropped in transit".

 

My two Kings* have no problem with PECO code 75 track. Check the wheel back to back width with a gauge as they might be out. They then need gentle manipulation with your fingers to the correct gauge of 14.5 for "normal" 00 gauge.

 

 

*Not three yet

 

 

 

Jason

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Well continuing on with this thread and it becomes all the more perplexing....

I sent the loco back to Hornby and they just returned it to me with nothing done.  They cannot help me because they do not have the finescale wheels.  Indeed, it looks like they never did and that when this model was released, that's how it went out !!!

I have contacted Alan Gibson. They can provide wheels of the correct size, but not mounted on axles. The suggestion was "do you know anyone with a lathe?"  

Also no joy from Peters Spares.

I am now considering securing the wheelset by one axle end in a small electric drill and wrapping a piece of emery cloth around the wheel rims.

This is so annoying.  Hornby release a locomotive with finescale compatible wheels on the locomotive, but not on the tender! Grrrr

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