instructions or user guide

[twiggy1969]

hi is there a user guide or instructions anywhere to tell you how to get going 

ive found a few guides but these dont explain what they are doing 

 

thanks 

[martin_wynne]

Hi,

 

Are you asking about Templot, or basic track-building, or something else?

 

For track-building, see Hayfield's topic (40 pages):

 

For Templot, start here: http://templot.com/companion/0_for_beginners.php

 

It doesn't yet go very far, but it will get you started.

 

For some background to the concept of Templot, see: http://templot.com/companion/origins_intent.php

 

For a way of working with it, see: http://templot.com/companion/basic_working_methods.php

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

 

[twiggy1969]

got to even worse instructions than Bill Bedfords

 

[polybear]

Templot is free....

[Gordon A]

Are you looking for guidance on using Templot or on hand building track?

 

Gordon A

[nick_bastable]

get a copy of Track

 

http://2mm.org.uk/products/nms/index.html

 

ignore the scale if your not 2mm the principals and practice are very sound

 

Nick

[roythebus]

If you haven't got the patience to read the instructions then track building isn't for you. It's relatively easy when you get the hang of it and looks much better than anything you can buy.

[twiggy1969]

templot is the problem all the user guides are a useful as bill bedfords instructions but if someone could point me in the direction of templot instructions then i would happily read them

 

[twiggy1969]

i can build track thats not a problem but i need to sort the track plan and wanted to use templot to do that but i just cant figure out how to use it

as it seems to  have no logic compared to any other  computer program ive ever used 

[martin_wynne]

Hi,

 

Templot is a tool. Like any tool you have to know what you want to do with it before you start. And for what you want it may be the wrong tool.

 

You say you can build track, so it's probably a better choice than some of the other programs based on pick-and-place ready-made commercial pointwork.

 

But you haven't said anything about what you want to do with your handbuilt track. Which makes it difficult to help you.

 

Scale and gauge, a sketch plan, a shunting plank, a branch line terminus, a roundy-roundy main line, in a cupboard, an empire in a barn?

 

Simple pointwork, or complex junction formations, tandems, slips, curved double-junctions?

 

Running lines on sweeping transition curves, or the sidings round the back of the gasworks?

 

Where are you starting from? How did you design your previous layout, if you had one? How much do you know about prototype pointwork?

 

I invented Templot, originally for my own use. It's free for anyone else to use if they want to. Or not if they don't. I'm not under any obligation to provide help or instructions to anyone, but I do my best to help users if I can.

 

Martin.

[twiggy1969]

well your right it is free now but it wasnt around 10 years ago when i used it for my last layout and now the way it works seems completely different but then i believe  that would be templot 1. It maybe just me not able to get my head around how it works but like all tools they only work if people are given instructions. 

As to your questions 

i have limited understanding of turnouts  and looking to lay a GWR country junction   based on Castle Cary  in OO with 1mm flang gaps

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Try working your way through the video tutorials, the may noit be right up to date, but they certainly go a long way towards it. A lot of the new functions make the complex S & C a lot easier, such as the Make Tandem Turnout and Make sliup functions.

 

For Castle Cary, I would start with the Up & Down Westbury Taunton lines and then add the loop platform road, all as plain track and then start to insert the turnouts, working from the Westbuy end. The Yeovil lines will then get added and flow naturally from the main lines.

 

 

 

 

[martin_wynne]

Unfortunately Castle Cary Junction spans the corner of 3 maps on NLS, which don't line up very well (1929 OS revision). I have pulled them into Templot and aligned them as best I can. (The georeferenced slippy version on the NLS site pre-dates the Taunton line.) I used Templot's low-contrast grey option to make it easier to work over them ("bright night" colour scheme):

 

 

 

The ruling curve seems to be (at that 1929 date) in the earlier Yeovil lines, with a right-hand double junction to Taunton. That looks to be about D-11 turnouts at first try.

 

If you would like to transfer this discussion to the Templot Club forum I can post these files and continue the discussion: http://85a.co.uk/forum/

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Nick Holliday]

The discontinuity on the 1929/1930 OS maps is odd. It might be worth looking at the old-maps site which can offer a more modern map, circa 1970, which is much smoother and could form a background for the earlier maps.

[twiggy1969]

7 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

Unfortunately Castle Cary Junction spans the corner of 3 maps on NLS, which don't line up very well (1929 OS revision). I have pulled them into Templot and aligned them as best I can. (The georeferenced slippy version on the NLS site pre-dates the Taunton line.) I used Templot's low-contrast grey option to make it easier to work over them ("bright night" colour scheme):

 

 

 

The ruling curve seems to be (at that 1929 date) in the earlier Yeovil lines, with a right-hand double junction to Taunton. That looks to be about D-11 turnouts at first try.

 

If you would like to transfer this discussion to the Templot Club forum I can post these files and continue the discussion: http://85a.co.uk/forum/

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

thank you martin i have sent a request to join

[Junctionmad]

On 11/12/2019 at 23:58, twiggy1969 said:

i can build track thats not a problem but i need to sort the track plan and wanted to use templot to do that but i just cant figure out how to use it

as it seems to  have no logic compared to any other  computer program ive ever used 

Not to start another flame session , but, Templot , has a very “ unique “ user interface and logic structure .  Today GUI users expect very similar look and feels from “ drawing “ ( as a generic term ) packages , typically objects are fully manipulated by mouse movement , select and group select tend to follow conventions and object snap etc exists. 

 

All this functionality ( and much more ) exists in Templot, as it’s an extremely versatile application. But you have adapt to the very different underlying logic and user interface. This means that (a) the learning curve is quite steep and (b) it’s not software you can just “ pick up and go “ 

 

its further exacerbated by the fact that templot requires a degree of understanding of prototype trackwork , an area where many railway modellers have a limited understanding ( rather like signalling ) , even amongst those modellers that build track.  

 

Having said that, Templot is a fantastic resource and you will benefit by progressing up the learning curve and Templot Club is a fantastic resource to aid you in your understanding 

 

dave  

Edited January 31, 2020 by Junctionmad

[gordon s]

I do agree Dave and it took me some time to grasp how to get started. I must have picked it up and put it down several times as it is so detailed. What really helped was understanding the function keys and it is possible to turn out a layout plan using some simple key strokes. In reality my own layout probably only used 20% of Templot’s capability.

 

The biggest hurdle to get around is how we used to build layouts in set track by clipping together straights, curves and pointwork. Once you can come to terms with a different way of planning where flowing curves are the norm, Templot is invaluable.

[martin_wynne]

The problem is that folks are asking me to spend hour upon hour of my time explaining Templot. Writing instructions takes 10 times longer than writing the actual program.

 

Even when I do spend time on it, I get very little feedback as to whether anyone found it useful, or even read it.

 

For example a few years ago I started a Templot Explained section. I managed only the first 4 pages. It has been waiting for the next page ever since -- but no-one has ever asked me when it might appear:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/templot_explained.php

 

I wrote a page on a suggested method of using Templot:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/basic_working_methods.php

 

But again no-one has asked anything about what is on there, or when I might continue it.

 

There is a page about some of the basics of a track template at:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/gs_firstoff.php

 

In the above pages I sometimes include screen capture videos, such as this one:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=hdIcVN9vvksNd4kwp6LaSw2

 

Recently I tried a new interactive "infographic" format. Is that better? see:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/catch_points.php

 

Everyone has different expectations/needs which makes covering every possible way of using Templot a never-ending task. In the end there is no real alternative to exploring all through the menus to find what you need, and asking on Templot Club if you don't find it, or don't understand it.

 

Templot is my hobby. At present I'm enjoying creating DXF files in 3D, and testing them on my 3D printer to create 3D-printed track parts. That might or might not lead to a useful new function for everyone. But should I stop working on it and spend my time explaining Templot for everyone else? 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[trustytrev]

Hello Martin,

                   I think the persons wanting to use Templot need to accept it is a unique piece of software that requires one to learn as one goes.  I believe too often these days people expect everything at the click of a button. However for something as complex and varied as  railway track that is just an unreasonable expectation. The fact you have done what you have and made it freely available is without comparison. The Templot Club has everything covered in my opinion. The only fault with it is your own personal choice to always step up and resolve nearly all  issues yourself for people. That and introducing new features are the two biggest sources of time expenditure you commit yourself to. I truly believe you are entitled to spend your time doing stuff you prefer rather than  feeling obliged to continuously assist in every aspect.

Best Regards.

trustytrev

[twiggy1969]

9 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

The problem is that folks are asking me to spend hour upon hour of my time explaining Templot. Writing instructions takes 10 times longer than writing the actual program.

 

Even when I do spend time on it, I get very little feedback as to whether anyone found it useful, or even read it.

 

For example a few years ago I started a Templot Explained section. I managed only the first 4 pages. It has been waiting for the next page ever since -- but no-one has ever asked me when it might appear:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/templot_explained.php

 

I wrote a page on a suggested method of using Templot:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/basic_working_methods.php

 

But again no-one has asked anything about what is on there, or when I might continue it.

 

There is a page about some of the basics of a track template at:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/gs_firstoff.php

 

In the above pages I sometimes include screen capture videos, such as this one:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=hdIcVN9vvksNd4kwp6LaSw2

 

Recently I tried a new interactive "infographic" format. Is that better? see:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/catch_points.php

 

Everyone has different expectations/needs which makes covering every possible way of using Templot a never-ending task. In the end there is no real alternative to exploring all through the menus to find what you need, and asking on Templot Club if you don't find it, or don't understand it.

 

Templot is my hobby. At present I'm enjoying creating DXF files in 3D, and testing them on my 3D printer to create 3D-printed track parts. That might or might not lead to a useful new function for everyone. But should I stop working on it and spend my time explaining Templot for everyone else? 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Hi Martin

 

guess you need some feed back and this is in no way meant to negative 

the one biggest thing ive noticed trying to follow whats been put up is a lack of an explanation of whats going on or how to get to a point 

i understand thats its free and takes time to learn but maybe a basic crib for functions maybe useful or a video covering the basics that most folk would use ie a junction main running lines and sidings  and while this is being done it being explained as to how and why the steps are being taken 

someone has kindly offered to spend some time with me to show me how to use it but as of yet ive not had the time to meet up 

 

Mark

[martin_wynne]

7 minutes ago, twiggy1969 said:

a video covering the basics that most folk would use ie a junction main running lines and sidings

 

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

This video covers some of the above. It's an old video, but the methods remain the same:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=QBDJMDgdiC7PwRqLS2U3jg2

 

This page explains the usual way of working with Templot: http://templot.com/companion/basic_working_methods.php

 

If you ask on Templot Club, and maybe post your .box file, we can cover any specific issues you are having.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[YesTor]

 

11 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

The problem is that folks are asking me to spend hour upon hour of my time explaining Templot. Writing instructions takes 10 times longer than writing the actual program.

 

Even when I do spend time on it, I get very little feedback as to whether anyone found it useful, or even read it.

 

For example a few years ago I started a Templot Explained section. I managed only the first 4 pages. It has been waiting for the next page ever since -- but no-one has ever asked me when it might appear:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/templot_explained.php

 

I wrote a page on a suggested method of using Templot:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/basic_working_methods.php

 

But again no-one has asked anything about what is on there, or when I might continue it.

 

There is a page about some of the basics of a track template at:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/gs_firstoff.php

 

In the above pages I sometimes include screen capture videos, such as this one:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=hdIcVN9vvksNd4kwp6LaSw2

 

Recently I tried a new interactive "infographic" format. Is that better? see:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/catch_points.php 

 

 

 

Hello Martin,

 

Just a little feedback if I may from a casual passerby and as a total newcomer to trackbuilding... I did some months ago begin looking at and start to experiment with initial usage of Templot.  I must say that all of the links above were investigated and utilised in great detail and yes, they did indeed prove absolutely invaluable in at least getting that 'first foot' on the Templot ladder, so to speak.  In fact, as I'd imagine with many first-time users, prior to going through those initial links/videos for that initial guidance I did indeed find myself staring blankly at the screen not really knowing where to begin.  So whilst it's only an educated guess, I would very much imagine that many more do in fact make use of those guidelines than may make it known.    I think that ultimately most people are very good at making good use of things without necessarily saying so, or indeed expressing gratitude.  Perhaps an inherent defect of human nature more than anything...

 

So, what did I do when I reached section 5 of http://templot.com/companion/templot_explained.php ?  Well okay, its true to say that my heart sank a little as it was a case in my mind of, "What now...?".  So, did I get around to asking when Part 5 would continue?  Well, no.  Why not, you may ask?  Well, I guess I simply assumed that perhaps there is no Part 5 to be in the near future maybe.  So what did I do instead?  Well, the next logical step was to ask questions on here [RMWeb], at which point I recall being directed by yourself to the Templot forum, and I have to say that your subsequent assistance was absolutely superb at every step of the way... 

 

Would I have made equal progress if there had been a Part 5, 6, 7 and so on of the 'instruction guide'?  Well, yes, I'm sure I would have, although as you point out, as we all surely make progress and understand guidelines/instructions at different rates, and perhaps just as importantly every one of us may have different topics and sub-topics that concern us, and yes, I can well imagine that with a subject as involved as trackbuilding appears to be, one could spend an entire lifetime writing an 'ideal' and 'complete' guide around the subject.  I suppose the point being really is that it depends on where you feel that the 'Beginner's Guide' should suitably end, before perhaps being guided onto the Templot forum for more involved questions/discussion?  Personally, I feel that as with most things, there perhaps needs to be just enough information in the public domain to enable the beginner to experience at least a reasonable level of accomplishment from the outset, and thus be left feeling sufficiently incentivised that he/she will be able to make further progress with further practice.  I guess as with most things, there is very little more frustrating than being left with a feeling of hopelessness right at the first hurdle, as that can only lead in many to the urge to simply walk away/give up.  So I suppose in short, if more information at the outset covering some of the more straightforward functionality of the program, that could potentially save yourself time and effort in explaining the same things over and over, then maybe that's a workable option for users, and indeed yourself?  

 

From my own perspective as a total newcomer, I do perhaps feel that an extension into Part 5, 6, 7 etc would indeed be very useful.  How far do you go with that?  Difficult to say, and I totally appreciate that no guide can be expected to be totally exhaustive of every topic, sub-topic and the like.  Personally I found the guides with illustrations of the actual program/screen display to be more useful, as quite often a single illustration can do the work of ten pages of text, but then I am very much the type of person that prefers a diagram over pages and pages of complex instructions anyway. 

 

Whichever way - from Templot users that I have spoken to and also my own very limited experience - clearly a superb program by all accounts and my sincere thanks to the assistance you have provided so far.

 

Best

Al

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by YesTor

[YesTor]

And just thinking aloud here also... might it be an idea to create some of those help pages as downloadable PDF documents, with a means of actually counting how many people actually download each one?  Okay, whilst someone downloading a page does not necessarily translate into that person reading, understanding or acting upon said information, it will however provide some indication of which topics/questions prove more popular than others.  

 

Another option, without changing anything, would be perhaps to look at the website statistics of how many 'hits' each of your guide pages achieve in comparison to others, assuming that option is available to your website set-up?  Or even providing a 'feedback' box that users could communicate via...?  Unfortunately the majority of web users are straightforward lazy and unless spoon-fed virtually every step of the way won't type anything that they don't have to, so anything that can be provided to ease communication I suppose might help... 

 

cheers

Al

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by YesTor

[Siberian Snooper]

I've always found the videos to be of more use than the printed page, especially as you can stop and go back and repeat adinfiniteum until it sinks in. I do use my laptop to show the video whilst working on the PC.

 

 

[gordon s]

The key to me was to get a piece of track on the screen and then use the F3 key to lengthen and shorten it. It doesn't really matter what gauge at this point as you are just going to take a few basic steps.

 

Next stage was using F6 to curve it. Save it, then with a new piece of track just use F7 to join it to the last. I know this probably goes against the possible preferred way of using Templot, but just getting a couple of pieces of track up on the screen gave me the motivation to push on. Then you find you can insert a turnout into the plain track and adjust the angle with F5. Once you can do the basics, you'll be amazed how far it will take you. In my opinion there is no better piece of planning software if you intend to build your own pointwork.

 

I now find I can turn out quite complex track plans without really knowing most of the intricacies that Templot offers. Getting over that first hurdle, was the hardest bit, but for me the best way of learning is to dive in and deal with each issue as it arises.

 

There is no end of support on the Templot forum and Martin's help is superb and invaluable. I'm still scratching the surface, but you can turn out plans with flowing pointwork once you get some basic understanding of what the F keys do.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for those just starting as sometimes it's several months before I return to the programme and I've forgotten how to do some basic things. Within a few minutes it starts to come back and within 30 minutes you are back to speed again.

 

Like most users, I'm always happy to help if you need assistance.

Edited February 1, 2020 by gordon s