Rails Announce OO 18000 Gas Turbine Locomotive

[cctransuk]

32 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Sorry. I'll shut up and go away. (CJL)

 

Chris,

 

My comments were not meant in any way to be derogatory - just an expression of an alternative view.

 

John Isherwood.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, ScRSG said:

Hmmm....

 

Looks like intercity livery to me

[John Wass]

On 16/11/2020 at 00:39, adb968008 said:

Looks like intercity livery to me

Looks like 18100 the Metropolitan-Vickers gas turbine which was converted to a 25kv electric loco E2001 as you see here. 

[bubbles2]

On 26/10/2020 at 10:32, Oliver Rails said:

 

Exclusive 18000 Gas Turbine "Kerosene Castle" Livery Sample!

 

We are pleased to share the first images of the BR Green Late Crest 18000 Gas Turbine livery sample/

The sample looks fantastic and Heljan have really captured the large presence that the 18000 displays.

 

As you will find with every pre-production sample, the purpose of EP and livery samples are to flush out any errors or issues with the model before it goes into full production. Several minor points have been identified so far and necessary changed will be implemented.

 

Read more and pre-order HERE

I know it’s a pre-production sample, and I have kept quiet till now but I was a little disappointed by these pictures, the extra orange/red lining will help but it just looks a bit devoid of detail, for example the tanks under the buffer beams and sanding pipes are missing, maybe these will be added on the production models, after all this is price wise quite a high end model, and yes I have paid my deposite.

[MGR Hooper!]

1 hour ago, bubbles2 said:

I know it’s a pre-production sample, and I have kept quiet till now but I was a little disappointed by these pictures, the extra orange/red lining will help but it just looks a bit devoid of detail, for example the tanks under the buffer beams and sanding pipes are missing, maybe these will be added on the production models, after all this is price wise quite a high end model, and yes I have paid my deposit.
 

You do realise that the sooner you share your concerns, the better it is for @Oliver Rails and @61661 to take onboard feedback and make the necessary changes.

Also if you look at the CAD images, the tanks are present, so I'm sure that answers your questions.

[bubbles2]

35 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

You do realise that the sooner you share your concerns, the better it is for @Oliver Rails and @61661 to take onboard feedback and make the necessary changes.

Also if you look at the CAD images, the tanks are present, so I'm sure that answers your questions.

As you say the tanks are present on the CAD images also the guard irons so hopefully these will be on the model, no sanding pipes but at least this will give me some 'improvements to make.

Yes  I probably should have raised this earlier but thought maybe it was just me and it was a general feeling when viewing the pictures of the pre- production sample. I hadn't pined it down to any particular thing until recently viewing the drawings, and I guess the items I mentioned are important for the look of the 'face' of the model. 

[dibber25]

If the illustrated model is a livery sample, it will be just that - a sample for the customer to check that the painting and printing are correct. Livery samples often don't have all the details, couplings etc and sometimes they don't have motors etc either. (CJL)

 

[miles73128]

New pics of production on Facebook! 

[gwrrob]

Here are the images for those not on Facebook. Delivery is pinned for between April and June with the order book largely full.

 

[Oliver Rails]

 

View more images on our website HERE

[GWR-fan]

So impressed I immediately opted for the BR black and placed my order.

[No Decorum]

It’s tremendous to have news of these. Expected June!

 

There is a sound project available but I should think it would need to be modified or a new project created to cater for the lighting functions of this model.

 

A question for Oliver, if I may: will the tail lights be switchable?

 

Also, I see that on the black version the lion faces in opposite directions on each side. On a steam locomotive, the lions would both face forward. Does anyone know what the orientation of the lions was on the real thing?

[Mark]

26 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It’s tremendous to have news of these. Expected June!

 

There is a sound project available but I should think it would need to be modified or a new project created to cater for the lighting functions of this model.

 

A question for Oliver, if I may: will the tail lights be switchable?

 

Also, I see that on the black version the lion faces in opposite directions on each side. On a steam locomotive, the lions would both face forward. Does anyone know what the orientation of the lions was on the real thing?

Looking at pictures the lion is always facing to the left hand end of the loco from the viewed side so it does face in opposite directions. In reality since there is no need to turn the loco forward is not as obvious externally as on a steam loco.

 

Mark

[Michael Hodgson]

14 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Also, I see that on the black version the lion faces in opposite directions on each side. On a steam locomotive, the lions would both face forward. Does anyone know what the orientation of the lions was on the real thing?

Good question.  Somebody may be able to answer that by reference to photos in which it is possible to identify the A and B ends.

 

It's a matter of perception of what the front is.  It makes sense for the lions to face forward on a steam loco, because they have an obvious front end - with perhaps the odd exception like Leaders or J70s.  When  the loco is running tender first, the lion is looking backwards, but that seems perfectly logical in that situation.  I think the pedants said that turning the lion round is incorrect in heraldic terms however and that the rule changed so there wasn't a consistent practice on steam locos.

 

In the case of visually symmetric locos, I would say it makes sense for the lion to face to the left on both sides because the UK has left hand running.  This means that if you are standing on a platform looking at the loco, the train is on you right and the lion faces forward (no matter which end of the loco is leading) more often than you encounter it on a platform to the left where the lion would be facing the rear..  

[dibber25]

36 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It’s tremendous to have news of these. Expected June!

 

There is a sound project available but I should think it would need to be modified or a new project created to cater for the lighting functions of this model.

 

A question for Oliver, if I may: will the tail lights be switchable?

 

Also, I see that on the black version the lion faces in opposite directions on each side. On a steam locomotive, the lions would both face forward. Does anyone know what the orientation of the lions was on the real thing?

Which version of the lion are you referring to, early or late? (CJL)

[No Decorum]

The black version

1 minute ago, dibber25 said:

Which version of the lion are you referring to, early or late? (CJL)

The black version, which is the early version. So far, we only have artwork for the green version with the early lion.

 

I take Michael Hodgson’s point that it makes sense for the lion to point forward on a steam [tender] locomotive. The early version was an art deco lion, not a heraldic device, and so could face either way. The later version was a heraldic device, and so could face only one way. There was nothing to stop British Railways applying to the College of Heralds for heraldic badges of the lion facing both ways but either it wasn’t applied for or wasn’t granted. I’m just curious to know what was actually applied to 18000 in black livery.

[cctransuk]

8 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

The black version

The black version, which is the early version. So far, we only have artwork for the green version with the early lion.

 

I take Michael Hodgson’s point that it makes sense for the lion to point forward on a steam [tender] locomotive. The early version was an art deco lion, not a heraldic device, and so could face either way. The later version was a heraldic device, and so could face only one way. There was nothing to stop British Railways applying to the College of Heralds for heraldic badges of the lion facing both ways but either it wasn’t applied for or wasn’t granted. I’m just curious to know what was actually applied to 18000 in black livery.

 

I have quite a number of photos of 18000 in the black / silver livery with early BR crest.

 

In ALL of them, the lion faces left.

 

John Isherwood.

[dibber25]

2 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

The black version

The black version, which is the early version. So far, we only have artwork for the green version with the early lion.

 

I take Michael Hodgson’s point that it makes sense for the lion to point forward on a steam [tender] locomotive. The early version was an art deco lion, not a heraldic device, and so could face either way. The later version was a heraldic device, and so could face only one way. There was nothing to stop British Railways applying to the College of Heralds for heraldic badges of the lion facing both ways but either it wasn’t applied for or wasn’t granted. I’m just curious to know what was actually applied to 18000 in black livery.

I have checked the references which I supplied for this model. It was practice for locomotives which had no obvious 'front' to have left-facing lions on both sides. That is what 18000 had. Though steam locomotives did feature a right-facing version of the early logo, the later version was put forward to the College of Arms for acceptance as a coat-of-arms. I once discussed this with a gentleman who rejoiced in the title of Portcullis Pursuivant at the College of Arms. He told me that two versions of a coat-of-arms were not permitted and that BR had been obliged to adopt the left-facing version of the later logo as standard, regardless of which side of the loco it was on. Though a few steam locos did receive right-facing versions before they were 'outlawed', 18000 had left-facing versions of the later logo on both sides, too. 

[No Decorum]

Thank you, gentlemen, both for the information and not telling me to stop being lazy and find out for myself. Portcullis, of course, was quite right. The “ferret and dartboard” (to use the non-heraldic term) is the crest, part of the armorial achievement of which the coat of arms is another part, although the term coat of arms is often used to mean the whole armorial achievement. That is why I used the term “heraldic badge”.

[61661]

2 hours ago, No Decorum said:

It’s tremendous to have news of these. Expected June!

 

A question for Oliver, if I may: will the tail lights be switchable?

 

Just in case Oliver is busy, I can assist with this. The tail, cab and engine room lights are all separately switchable, both in DC mode using the microswitches under the body and in DCC mode using a six-function decoder. 

 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

 

[No Decorum]

1 minute ago, 61661 said:

Just in case Oliver is busy, I can assist with this. The tail, cab and engine room lights are all separately switchable, both in DC mode using the microswitches under the body and in DCC mode using a six-function decoder. 

 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

 

Indeed it does. Many thanks, Ben.

[mozzer models]

The “ferret and dartboard were at 1st put on facing forward until the  Heraldry Commission Told them BR could only have one design but with one looking each way was class as 2 so 1 had to drop  BR went with looking left

 

[Pteremy]

Looking good. I think that the cab door handrails on the green version should be slightly longer though - they should reach almost to the mid point of the cab window. 

[Michael Hodgson]

4 hours ago, mozzer models said:

The “ferret and dartboard were at 1st put on facing forward until the  Heraldry Commission Told them BR could only have one design but with one looking each way was class as 2 so 1 had to drop  BR went with looking left

 

BR shouldn't have asked the College of Arms about what marketing people these days would call a logo.  Most of the pre-grouping companies with their latin mottoes never bothered.

[adb968008]

43 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

BR shouldn't have asked the College of Arms about what marketing people these days would call a logo.  Most of the pre-grouping companies with their latin mottoes never bothered.

Indeed what stopped them having a herald one way, and a logo the other ?