GWR Y7 Banana Van Ends

[WillCav]

Hi all,

 

I have been reading a topic on a different forum:

It has got me thinking about getting some more banana vans to make a more representative rake of wagons.  I did some research and found that the diagram Y7 is the newest GW banana van - and the only one with the later vertically planked doors.  It would make a nice model and break up a train of earlier banana vans.  I work in OO so most of the wagon is easy: Ratio O29 open for the 9' wb underframe with Ratio V23 etc van for the sides / roof (I've used this method before to make V21 vans).

 

In Atkins, Beard et al, there is a diagram of the Y7 and some text.  The end is very peculiar with a moveable shutter between the corner and the first end stanchion and a flat X bracing between the end stanchions.  There is no photo of the wagon.  There seems to be a rare old kit with this arrangement.

 

However, looking at photos of two of the preserved ones, they seem to have the standard double bonnet vent end with a shutter added on the middle panel.  Does anyone know the history of them?  Did the ends get changed or is Atkins, Beard et al wrong?

 

Many thanks

 

Will

[Il Grifone]

The kit will be the ancient K's kit; good for its time....

[Steamport Southport]

ABS did a Y7 and a Y5.

 

There's an ABS Y7 here.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126910-id-of-van-sought/

 

 

The K's one was a Y4 I think, now superseded by the Parkside kit.

 

https://peco-uk.com/products/gwr-10ton-banana-van

 

 

 

Jason

[Castle]

Hi Will,

 

Been there, done that! I hope my efforts are of help...

 

 

The obvious place to start is with the Parkside Dundas Banana Van kit but this is a little bit of a red herring in a way. While the ends of the kit are spot on for this vehicle, the wheelbase and length of the Y7s and Y9s were much bigger than the MINK A based Y4 that the kit is the subject of. Then I had a bit of a brain wave. If the Y4 is based on the V12 MINK A kit (which is why it is easy for Parkside to offer this kit!), is the Y7 & Y9 based on any other wagon? It turns out that it is! The sides and sole bars are based on the later V23 wagon, same as the Ratio Vent Van. In fact, the sides are exactly the same! I smell a plan... The really good thing is that the Ratio ends will fit the rest of the Banana Van kit and give you a regular V12 MINK A too! Two kits, two wagons even after a kit bash! That, ladies and gentlemen, is what I think is a win!

 

Here is the prototype:

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/245/no-105599-fruit-b-banana-van/440fece365a665fe2c672c490fd88e3a

 

Here's what I came up with.

 

 

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[WillCav]

That looks really good, Castle. The banana spots look just right. What did you use for the 9' wheelbase underframe?

 

My new plan is:-

Y4 ends + V23 sides/roof + O29 u.frame = Y7 as preserved.  I will just assume that the diagram in Atkins etc was not what was built.  Left over bits make an O31 and a V12 (didn't think of that one until you mentioned it - thanks)

 

The only problem with using the O29 is you have to cut the sides off the sole bars!

 

Will

[Castle]

I honestly can't remember Will - its been a while! Sorry to not be more helpful but hopefully it has given you a starting point...

 

Please post your banana kit bashing here - it will be great to see it!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[WillCav]

I've done a bit more digging...

 

I've found some photos of BOTH types of end now:

 

Type 1: Atkins/Beard etc end with shutter on LH panel of the end and flat cross bracing on the centre panel only

http://ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=32926

and

http://ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=32460

 

Type 2: Shutter in the centre panel with angle diagonal bracing on the side panels - not quite the same as the Y4 ends I was going to use!

http://ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=28822

and

http://ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=28768

 

I think I'll have a go at the type 1 ends - I'm thinking of using cooper craft ends with no vents and scraping off the cross bracing if I can find any in the spares box - else I'll have to scratch build the ends.

 

I'm assuming that all Y7s were built with the type 1 ends originally and some were modified when they went through the workshops sometime between 1929 and now - I may build a type 2 end one later just for variety.

 

The only outstanding question is when they were modified? But I think that fact may be lost in the mists of time.

 

Will

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by WillCav
adding comment on the Y4 ends

[jim.snowdon]

2 hours ago, WillCav said:

I'm assuming that all Y7s were built with the type 1 ends originally and some were modified when they went through the workshops sometime between 1929 and now - I may build a type 2 end one later just for variety.

 

The only outstanding question is when they were modified? But I think that fact may be lost in the mists of time.

Given the spread of numbers of the vans you have found, I think your assumption is sound. If there are any details of when they were modified, the probable (and probably only) place to find them is in the GWR wagon register books, which are either in the NRM's care, or still with the Public Record Office at Kew (they used to be in the branch of the PRO that was at Porchester Road, outside Paddington, before that got sold off and converted into flats).

 

The GWR diagram shows the ventilator offset to one side, so although not a very good drawing, the one in Atkins, et. al. is based on a genuine Swindon drawing.

 

Jim

Edited November 26, 2019 by jim.snowdon
To add additional information.

[Wenrash]

All the Y diagrams are in the book "Great Western Wagons Plan Book" J Russell (1976). The diagrams appear to be reductions of genuine GWR general arrangement drawings.

 

Diagram Y7 lot 1054 dated 1929 has ends as identified as Type 1 by Will. None of the diagrams have a Type 2 end.

So draw your own conclusions.

Richard A

[Wenrash]

I should clarify that the Y10, lot 1363, has an end similar to the Type 2. That being converted from cattle vans diagram dated June 1939, but labeled as a "Fruit Van" whereas the Y7 is a "Insulated Van for Banana Traffic".

Richard A

[WillCav]

Hi all,

I've made a start on the Y7 with the shopping list of bits as shown above. I've gone for the 'type 1' ends using spare cooper craft cross braced ends as a base.

I've just realised that the ratio door mechanisms are wrong. The handles seem to be a lot lower on these for some reason.

Thanks

Will

[lofty1966]

Excellent work on the ends.

My Parkside/Ratio hybrid and an ABS kit.