Jump to content
 

Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan


phil gollin
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium

When I think Hornby I think about the Classic catalogues of my youth which were actually Triang Hornby . So maybe some retro models from that era. As has been pointed out the Caley 123 and Deans 4-2-2 tooling must still exist because there have been Chinese versions of them, but I think they have been milked to death .  I think a re run of Stephensons Rocket might be in order though.

 

And of course theres the Dublo heritage with A4s

 

So given Simon Kohlers marketing strategys of the past Id expect limited editions of Sir Nigel Gresley , Duchess of Abercorn, N2, Princess , Jinty  , special boxes and £25-£30 premium slapped on .

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, The Johnster said:

This year's announcements were astonishing, and will be a very hard act to follow...

But that's what they have to aim at, still digging themselves out of the financial mire so they need more selections of immensely appealing items that the customers will jump at. (Hornby are with a lender of last resort, paying up front for a loan facility: they pay for this facility whether they borrow or not! Only one thing to do in this situation, borrow the money and use it to earn money to repay all of the facility charge, the loan interest and the loan capital.)

 

They certainly need some more contemporary models, which can be livery churned into the future: the competitors have been picking off contemporary traction and Hornby will need a significant piece of it to thrive in the coming decade.

 

12 hours ago, Amand said:

...If they're going to do a nostalgic release (hopefully a full retool rather than bringing something back as a Railroad version) what is there to do that hasn't been done by another manufacturer or Hornby themselves?

I would suggest two of the best opportunities are the Black 5 and 8F. The last generation that saw them working in the final decade of BR steam are now newly retired: probably some grey pounds going begging there.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Maybe the first step for 2020 will be the release of various models which should have arrived in 2019?   There will inevitably be some new models for 2020 and on present form the interesting feature will be whether or not they actually arrive in 2020 or won't be here until 2021.  My main concern - in the light of some past comments from the new broom about shortened development time is whether or not any hi-fi models will show a decline in attention to detailed in teh way that we saw with the hurried development of this year's Terrier.  Stuff to appeal to a wider market, and to develop such markets is a good idea and will no doubt happen but they need to take care in the hi-fi market area. 

 

As for other things I reckon Legend has ticked the right box in his post above.    But I really hope they do not come in Hornby-Dublo style boxes - that would be the ultimate insult to a once proud brand name.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Every year we always have some carry overs. And like most recent years, it is normally the reruns that get carried over.

Now either this due to some sort of  difficulty in getting a rerun organised or the intake of orders takes a lot longer to build up therefore not financially viable right away or both.

 

There is a strong argument, looking at new entrants, that maybe whacking out a wider range of liveries in year 1 gets back faster the revenues invested. Rather than holding a off a preferred livery for a later year, by which time, everyone's interest has shifted to another all new model (and most probably not from Hornby either).

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

....Instead of looking backwards to history,  Hornby should be celebrating the future with something more current.   

 

Like what?

 

The most modern and high profile traction  out there, the IET / class 800 has already been done by Hornby.

 

They are also tooling up accurate Mk3s for the HST being retained by Scotrail / GWR

 

as for freight - Hatons are producing a state of the art 66, while Bachmann have scoped up the class 90 and Heljan are bringing back an improved 86s. Dapol have nabbed the class 68 and Acurascale the Mk5s.

 

The only 'current' motive power not being covered are rather boring EMUs / DMUs - not really the stuff to excite the casual audience regardless of how essential they may be for the accurate modeller.

 

Picking a previous example from their archive and giving it the modern touch is FAR more logical if Hornby want to do something eye-catching

 

Edited by phil-b259
  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
24 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

They certainly need some more contemporary models, which can be livery churned into the future: the competitors have been picking off contemporary traction and Hornby will need a significant piece of it to thrive in the coming decade.

 

 

Erm...... I think you will find the IET / class 800s fit the bill there.

 

So far we have GWR, LNER and TPE variants with EMR variants to follow (yes I know they will need new tooling as they are shorter). There is a strong probability that if cross country gets more trains they will also be IETs.

 

In all cases these uni are only just starting their  lives - and regardless of politics I'm sure they will carry many different livery variations in their 30-40 year lifetime.

Link to post
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

....... a decline in attention to detailed ........

My latest Hornby model - R4904 Pullman - though incorporating higher-tech lighting than any of my earlier ones is definitely poorly finished in comparison : I'll ignore the wonky gangway and bogie lead that came away in my hand ( guv ) as they're assembly problems - but the colour of the cream upper panels is a rather different colour and the gold lettering is very dull, while some of the lining around the kitchen windows is absent ........ Could Do Better would be my skool report.

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the most significant announcement they could make, leveraging their 100 year anniversary, would be a commitment to bring their manufacturing back to the UK. It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be quick and it wouldn't be cheap. But, sooner or later, they are going to have to tackle the root cause of their endless delays and quality issues. And it would surely help them, at least in the long run, get a far better grip on their business. Perhaps look to Roco and what they've done in Eastern Europe, as a possible example.

  • Like 3
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, phil-b259 said:

Erm...... I think you will find the IET / class 800s fit the bill there.

Is that enough though? Locos too, which are more shiftable as individual pieces as liveries change.

 

28 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 My main concern - in the light of some past comments from the new broom about shortened development time is whether or not any hi-fi models will show a decline in attention to detail in the way that we saw with the hurried development of this year's Terrier.  Stuff to appeal to a wider market, and to develop such markets is a good idea and will no doubt happen but they need to take care in the hi-fi market area...

Finding the sweet spot between investment and return, that's what he's being paid for. And you cannot make an omelette without breaking some eggs. and yet the Terrier appears to have flown off the shelves, my assessment would be 'good enough' for that sector of the market that wants attractive, at an attractive price. Marketing, and specifically expectation management, is what Hornby need to improve.

 

53 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

...I really hope they do not come in Hornby-Dublo style boxes - that would be the ultimate insult to a once proud brand name.

But would you feel that way, if it was a real tribute to what was so much liked about this product? I would invite anyone to look at their B12/3. High fidelity appearance, beautifully detailed and finished, principally die cast locomotive body construction, runs and pulls superbly. (In my opinion, the best RTR OO steam model available, and while I am very grateful for it, would have to say that Hornby over-invested in this, considering its potential return on that investment.) Would an item of this quality be fit to go in a Hornby-Dublo styled box?

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
22 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Is that enough though? Locos too, which are more shiftable as individual pieces as liveries change.

 

 

Please show me a recently built loco (i.e. 'modern and looking to the future' as someone put it) that hasn't been covered by another manufacturer!

 

With he notable exception of TPE (and the class 68 has already been done by Dapol) - loco haulage for scheduled daytime passenger trains in the UK is dead.

 

Unit operation IS THE FUTURE - the 800 / IET being the flagship type and the spiritual equivalent of the A4s, Deltics, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
32 minutes ago, jixer said:

I think the most significant announcement they could make, leveraging their 100 year anniversary, would be a commitment to bring their manufacturing back to the UK. It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be quick and it wouldn't be cheap. But, sooner or later, they are going to have to tackle the root cause of their endless delays and quality issues. And it would surely help them, at least in the long run, get a far better grip on their business. Perhaps look to Roco and what they've done in Eastern Europe, as a possible example.

 

We have done this debate before - and proper analysis shows that the resulting massive increase in labour costs is simply unsustainable.

 

UK purchasers are always winging about high prices and wanting Rolls Royce luxury for  Skoda prices (a problem that goes well beyond model railways I might add) - and that is NOT going to change.

 

 

  • Agree 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Please show me a recently built loco (i.e. 'modern and looking to the future' as someone put it) that hasn't been covered by another manufacturer!...

I don't disagree that is a clear difficulty. But it's compete or surrender.

 

Unit operation is where it is at for passenger for sure. Freight though is a different story, and wagons too sell as separate pieces.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
9 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I don't disagree that is a clear difficulty. But it's compete or surrender.

 

Unit operation is where it is at for passenger for sure. Freight though is a different story, and wagons too sell as separate pieces.

 

But freight runs into the same problem.

 

Class 66 - Hattons

Class 70 - Bachmann

Class 68 - Dapol

Class 90 -Bachmann

Class 92 - Acurescale

Class 86 - Heljan (yes I now they are only doing 'as built' versions so far... but i the future..

 

Also, direct duplication* has been tried in the past - and all it does is reduce each manufacturers profits rather than grow the market. Consequently manufacturers avoid duplication and wipull products if tooling has not yet started if another reveals they are likely to get to market first, or do what Rails did with their terrier (upgrade the product to make it even more detailed and sell at a higher price). Bachmann also have the ability to transfer development to a N gauge version of course.

 

* Duplication like Hornbys Railroad standard 66 versus Bachmanns or Hattons higher specced offering i normally not an issue as each model is actually going for a different segment of the market rather than being in direct competition for the same segment.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I know we went round there the other day, but I reckon Lord of The Isles is very viable, especially if you use a tender drive, and sound and DCC within the locomotive proper.

 

I don't know, just a thought. At least you can lose the magnificent gap betwixt bogie and locomotive boiler!

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Not really, the "Hornby" that started marketing tinplate trains in 1920 died when it was absorbed by Tri-ang in 1964 and not much that was Hornby Dublo was carried across to Triang-Hornby.  The best that might be considered in anniversary tems is that the present company might be said to have hit the 70 years mark that commemorates the production of a train set for Marks and Spencer to sell at Christmas 1950 by Rovex.  The company that now trades as "Hornby" is even more recent as it was formed in 1972 after the "Tri-ang" name became unavailable due to the collapse of the Lines Brother conglomerate, so that would give a 50th anniversary in 2022!

 

The infatuation with Old Hornby that SK has is on a par with the recent advertising slogan "Vauxhall, a British Brand since 1903"*.  In other words, a somewhat stretched association.

 

* Vauxhall Motors, formed in 1903, bought by General Motors in 1925, bought by Groupe PSA in 2017.

 

 

Is that why the LNER celebrated it's centenary in 1925, even naming a locomotive that name?

 

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/poster-produced-by-london-north-eastern-railway-to-news-photo/90742851

 

 

 

Jason

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Like what?

 

The most modern and high profile traction  out there, the IET / class 800 has already been done by Hornby.

 

They are also tooling up accurate Mk3s for the HST being retained by Scotrail / GWR

 

as for freight - Hatons are producing a state of the art 66, while Bachmann have scoped up the class 90 and Heljan are bringing back an improved 86s. Dapol have nabbed the class 68 and Acurascale the Mk5s.

 

The only 'current' motive power not being covered are rather boring EMUs / DMUs - not really the stuff to excite the casual audience regardless of how essential they may be for the accurate modeller.

 

Picking a previous example from their archive and giving it the modern touch is FAR more logical if Hornby want to do something eye-catching

 

Not at all biased, and backwards looking.

 

If they are to become relevent to todays generation, they do need to make boring DMUs and EMUs, because if they didnt make boring Diesels in the 1970’s/80’s there wouldnt be anything from their archive to give a modern touch to today, to entertain yesterdays generation.

 

Whilst some steam locos will always sell, theres an increasing number of steam locos on special offer in my inbox, I can only wish I can find a cheap IEP on ebay, let alone a discounted new one.. not many steam locos sell out at £400+ requiring 2,3,4 repeats.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Depending on what changes are made to the body, and the cost / viability of modifying the tooling, Hornby may have an advantage in a couple of years on the Class 69.

 

Regarding the death of the steam market, only Hornby & others will know the real story.  Is the "fire sale" listings a result of overproduction, because of a bad model (perhaps the Heljan 47xx), to quick on a subsequent run, or a genuine decline in the market?

 

The flip side is, allowing for it's issues, the just released 2019 wishlist poll had the top 8 wanted models all being steam, and even going further down the list steam is well represented.  Some of that can perhaps be explained away as the diesels have all been done, but they are still beating out the assorted multiple units and other modern stuff that hasn't been done.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

If they are to become relevent to todays generation, they do need to make boring DMUs and EMUs, because if they didnt make boring Diesels in the 1970’s/80’s there wouldnt be anything from their archive to give a modern touch to today, to entertain yesterdays generation.

 

The danger is the assumption that "todays generation" all model the modern scene, which isn't true.  Yes, there is a bias towards more modern stuff, but a lot of new modellers are looking to the past for the greater operational possibilities.

 

The interesting question will be if there is ever really a market for all these DMUs and EMUs to be made, or whether if the 80% of the market are happy enough to just have a "modern DMU" for their little railway without a care if is an exact match to a given manufacturers real product.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

My main concern - in the light of some past comments from the new broom about shortened development time is whether or not any hi-fi models will show a decline in attention to detailed in teh way that we saw with the hurried development of this year's Terrier.  Stuff to appeal to a wider market, and to develop such markets is a good idea and will no doubt happen but they need to take care in the hi-fi market area. 

But when the new broom talks about shortened development time, is he white man speaking with forked tongue (i.e a skilled, experienced, and highly professional businessman and marketeer)?  If by 'development time' he means 'the time between announcing the model and getting it to market', as happened with the Collett Suburbans, 48DS, and others from last year's announcement, this could suggest that he's got a class 120 dmu, a W, and a full range of toplights under wraps almost ready to go having been worked on in R & D for a couple of years.  A wise MD making announcements in a competitive market speaks the truth, and nothing but the truth, but is a fool if he speaks the whole truth...

 

You are spot on about taking care in the hi-fi area, though; it is a relatively short time since many of us came to regard red box as a safe pair of hands in this regard, and their response to better models from other manufacturers was tardy and for many years did not give the impression that there was any real change of corporate culture behind it, so any backsliding would be very bad for the image and regard in which we now hold them.  

 

If there is a culture problem at Hornby, it is the residual belief that lo-fi models are not produced by anyone else in the UK market, hence the field is theirs, and that easy money can be made from it using redacted items which were past their sell by date 40 years ago.  The result is 'Railroad', to my mind a cause of split corporate personality as even Hornby don't seem to know what it's actually for.  There are A4s and Flying Scotsmen competing for market share with hi-fi versions in Hornby's own catalogue, and the Crosti has been taken out of Railroad status and is now alleged to be a full fat hi-fi model.  When Bachmann dipped their toes in the starter set xmas tree circle world a few years back, they used freelance models that did not compete with anything else they were doing!

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
37 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The only 'current' motive power not being covered are rather boring EMUs / DMUs - not really the stuff to excite the casual audience regardless of how essential they may be for the accurate modeller.

Don't agree.  The casual audience often wants a model of the train they see at their local station, the one they go to work or school on, which is usually a boring multiple unit.  But it must be offered in the correct livery!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...