Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan

[adb968008]

Just to add to the Rocket story...

its just completed its “tour” and returned to York for 10 years..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-49825385

 

 

I agree with you on Lancashire Witch, I mention it through historical significance... it was the parental lineage of Rocket, built for a railway that opened before the Liverpool and Manchester... however history has forgotten it when BR closed the line and Bolton council recognised its history by first building a bus depot and swimming pool on the site and later converting it to a shopping mall and car park striking it totally from history... chances are if Locomotion didn't survive it too would be forgotten. Leigh I think has forgotten it ever had a railway, let alone one the true first railways.

Edited November 21, 2019 by adb968008

[Pandora]

3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

There's a little more cost in the driven wheelset construction and the chassis assembly, to have split chassis pick up on a steam model while maintaining the integrity of the present steel axle wheelset with wiper pick up arrangement. (You will have to trust my production engineering background for that statement.) It's the poor mechanical integrity of the past split axle designs  used for cranked wheelsets that was a contributor to their downfall. Better is perfectly possible in commercial construction, but there is a cost.

 

Away with belief, this is fully testable. Take your best running loco, remove the wiper pick ups, and temporarily wire flying leads to the motor. Does the starting improve? (It won't, the low efficiency of the worm drive swamps the small drag from wipers.)

 

I can make the direct comparison, albeit on RTR designs for D+E models from Bachmann. The same generic design of drive line is used in both their locos with wiper pick up, and the MU's which employ very efficient split axle technique for pick up (which is much cheaper to implement with sufficient robustness in the absence of cranks with coupling rods). They are equivalently smooth in starting. The effect of the low efficiency of the worm is readily visible in the split axle pick up Hornby mechanism used for their Brush 2 (class 30/31). Given just enough power to start the motor turning the body can be made to tilt without the model moving along the track. (Neither Bachmann or Hornby draw attention to the very efficient split axle pick up in those of their models with this welcome feature, so poor is the reputation it has earned from past poor implementations.)

 

A step forward in mechanism smoothness shortly looked for in OO is the helical gearing that Accurascale have announced for their class 55, 92 and 37 models).

 

 

The slow running locomotive  35cm in 21 minutes is impressive, the 1960s R159 TriAng Trancontinental  blue diesel,  that was campanile of very slow running,  how do the two compare?

[brushman47544]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Locomotion? 

 

1 hour ago, Fireline said:

 

No, that was Kylie....

 

Little Eva. Kylie was much later.

[JSpencer]

It is indeed hard to find subjects. 1920 was the year HMS Hood was completed (the famous battlecruiser sunk by Bismarck). An all new Airfix model would not go amiss but hardly Hornby railways. 

A special wagon transporting 15in naval guns maybe?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

58 minutes ago, Pandora said:

The slow running locomotive  35cm in 21 minutes is impressive, the 1960s R159 TriAng Trancontinental  blue diesel,  that was capable of very slow running,  how do the two compare?

Not a clue, never having operated one. (On a contemporary resistance controller, I suspect we would have been ecstatic if the Triang reliably sustained as slow a rate of progress as circa a foot in twenty seconds, scale for between 2 to 3 mph.)

[The Johnster]

I reckon my old Triang Brush type 2 could've done that, with the Triang resistance controller, as could my jinty chassis-ed 748 Saddle Tank, (Maunsell S class?), but there would have been visible 'cogging'; smooth movement would not have been possible.  Nevertheless both these locos were very good performers for their day and considering their train set heritage.  Hornby Dublo were smoother but less controllable, if that makes sense...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

32 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

It is indeed hard to find subjects. 1920 was the year ...

...the N2 entered service. Both the subject of the first H-D tank loco model, and long standing in current Hornby's range, though looking rather tired now. Needs renewal to current standard and the ideal commemorative item.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Just to add to the Rocket story...

its just completed its “tour” and returned to York for 10 years..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-49825385

 

 

I agree with you on Lancashire Witch, I mention it through historical significance... it was the parental lineage of Rocket, built for a railway that opened before the Liverpool and Manchester... however history has forgotten it when BR closed the line and Bolton council recognised its history by first building a bus depot and swimming pool on the site and later converting it to a shopping mall and car park striking it totally from history... chances are if Locomotion didn't survive it too would be forgotten. Leigh I think has forgotten it ever had a railway, let alone one the true first railways.

Rocket seems to have captured the public imagination in the same way that FS did just under a century later, and perhaps for the same reason; the name has a certain ring and glamour to it, and in more modern times the juxtaposition of the name with a loco that went very slowly (by modern standards) is amusing, despite the loco being a record breaker at the Rainhill Trials.

 

By and large, most people are unaware of early locomotives and think that Rocket was the first, not the result of a quarter century of development.  Even enthusiasts seem only to be aware of the evolutionary process in the North East of England, but back on the first tramroad to successfully use a steam locomotive, the Penydarren, things were also happening and this period saw the first rack system and the first articulated loco, almost completely forgotten now.  

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Pandora said:

The slow running locomotive  35cm in 21 minutes is impressive, the 1960s R159 TriAng Trancontinental  blue diesel,  that was campanile of very slow running,  how do the two compare?

I have a Triang 37 I can re-run the test, after Warley.

 

I do agree Triang motors could run well, their downfall was ugliness and pickups, though dont forget the track... my track is very unforgiving.. its roughly laid, badly joined.. (some day i’ll make a cutsie scenic, but having done it twice, and with little time, I just have rough and ready)... on that aspect Triang would fail badly I suspect.

 

The other aspect, as mentioned is gearing..Lima can jump step by step at slow speed, But at 22mins into, in that video you can see Hornbys recent (at the time of filming), class 71... at the same speed setting.. its all over the place... yet take away the HO, its operation is very good compared to its OO peers... which demonstrates the gulf of difference between OO and HO (but yet at the same price point.. the ET22 is the same rrp as the 71).

 

I have steam locos like Rocos BR52, rh109 and s160, and Hollands NS3737, Brawas Pt31, they all run smooth as silk too.

Edited November 21, 2019 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

The step by step performance of old Triang and some Lima mechs is 'cogging', and not despite the name anything to do with gears.  It occurs in the motor, as the armature revolves at slow speed.  The armature is propelled around by it's magnetic field being repelled by the static magnet of the motor, and the space between the poles reacts differently as it is in close proximity to the fixed magnet to the pole part.  This is why a 5 pole motor runs more smoothly than a 3 pole one other things being equal.  It will be accompanied by a hum when the loco is stationary which is silenced when it takes a 'step', to resume as the movement ceases.  

 

This effect can be minimised with a flywheel, but of course a flywheel produces it's minimum effect at the lowest speeds.  My Triang Saddle Tank once took 45 minutes to cog around a 10'x4' tailchaser, but I wouldn't recommend it as it overheats the motor.

[mdvle]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

So whilst Rocket is a bit of an obvious choice, Celebrating a Hornby’s history is a bit like celebrating the history of railways from old to new...

 

I’d not put it past Hornby to turn out a Loco from 1920, as well as a new loco from 2020...  in which case a Rocket, a pregrouping Loco from c1920, plus a class 88/93 would be my guess.

 

I like the idea of a 1920 and 2020 model, though not sure about the 88/93.

 

My suspicion is that given you seem to need agreements to make models of the newer stuff Dapol likely has that in place.  It also would be brave to tool up a model of an unreleased prototype in this era of wanting accurate models, a late change to the look of the prototype could make that tooling investment look bad.

 

The class 69, while still with risk, might be safer given that a straight rebuild/re-engine shouldn't offer the same risk of last minute changes, and the tooling could also perhaps be used to churn out some class 56s.

 

Another option, perhaps for a "going big" announcement, would be doing the Bombardier Aventra family.  The class 701 will be new in 2020, and as an extension of a established family should be reasonably sure what the units will look like.  South Western Railway part of the southern part of the rail network Hornby likes to favour, and other members of the family open up sales to modellers of other regions.

[Pandora]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The step by step performance of old Triang and some Lima mechs is 'cogging', and not despite the name anything to do with gears.  It occurs in the motor, as the armature revolves at slow speed.  The armature is propelled around by it's magnetic field being repelled by the static magnet of the motor, and the space between the poles reacts differently as it is in close proximity to the fixed magnet to the pole part.  This is why a 5 pole motor runs more smoothly than a 3 pole one other things being equal.  It will be accompanied by a hum when the loco is stationary which is silenced when it takes a 'step', to resume as the movement ceases.  

 

This effect can be minimised with a flywheel, but of course a flywheel produces it's minimum effect at the lowest speeds.  My Triang Saddle Tank once took 45 minutes to cog around a 10'x4' tailchaser, but I wouldn't recommend it as it overheats the motor.

The pseudo 6-wheel bogies of the 31 and 37 Triang locos were rather poor,  but the from recollection the transcontinental loco, the blue double ended diesel,  at was smooth, powerful and very controllable down to some very slow speeds.  I guess I will have to buy an example from Ebay just to satisfy my curiosity

[Pandora]

On 12/11/2019 at 18:24, wombatofludham said:

Well, given their form for claiming locos as their natural territory (Terriergate…) I wouldn't be surprised if it's the Lord Westwood re-imagined (for younger viewers, Google it).

 

It would be nice if for the 100th anniversary they did some more modern re-interpretations of older Triang and Hornby models, or re-issued some of their previous re-makes.  However, one good ole'boy I'd like to see upgraded for the 21st Century is the old Triang AL1.5 (it was allegedly meant to be an AL2 but got changed to an AL1 after the Hornby Dublo model ceased production, hence the slightly odd shape).  A contemporary AL1/Class 81 to the standard of their 87 would be superb and entirely on trend with their territorial marking before Bachmann blag it.  Just make sure it can be easily DCC Sound fitted unlike the 87.
 

The TriAng AL1 was the Dublo body with the bogies from the aborted AL2 project.  Bachmann could produce an AL1 in they chose, the 85 (AL5) and 81 (AL1) are identical except for a few details.  Hornby their prospect is the 86, again the 87 and 86 are near identical twins.  These observations have been debated elsewhere and the reps have given the secret wink when quizzed about these

[scottrains29]

A motorised model of Cycloped could be quite funny, complete with tts sound!

 

I'd probably but one for my modern image layout just for a laugh!

[BritishRail60062]

Time for my wishlist to come

Locomotives:

Class 60 - GBRF (Possibly 60095/60021 in the default livery or 60026 in the "Blue" livery)

Class 60 - Large Logo DB Cargo Red 

Class 60 - EWS with the yellow headlight clusters like 60008/60075/60009 etc

Class 60 - DC Rail (60046/60055/60039 or 60028)

 

Class 87 - Caledonian Sleeper

Class 67 - DB Cargo/Large Logo

 

Class 43 HST - East Midlands Trains 11 years branding.+ Mk3's with lights

Class 50 - BR Large Logo as 50038 "Formidable"

 

Now its time to push the envelope out into the open for my freight wagons wishlist

TEA Tank Wagons (new tooling and models that won't fall to pieces like some of my Revolution/Rapido ones did) - VTG/EWS etc.

TDA Tank Wagons (New Tooling and a new model here) Murco/Total and de-branded liveries. These were built between 1991 to 1993 to replace older wagons.

 

Other new models are coming from other makes for 2020 so my suggestions here is quite a short one compared to other years .

[miles73128]

Liking the new Hull Trains 802 livery....and TPE should be a shoe in? 

[sc2016]

2 hours ago, BritishRail60062 said:

Time for my wishlist to come

Locomotives:

Class 60 - GBRF (Possibly 60095/60021 in the default livery or 60026 in the "Blue" livery)

Class 60 - Large Logo DB Cargo Red 

Class 60 - EWS with the yellow headlight clusters like 60008/60075/60009 etc

Class 60 - DC Rail (60046/60055/60039 or 60028)

 

Class 87 - Caledonian Sleeper

Class 67 - DB Cargo/Large Logo

 

Class 43 HST - East Midlands Trains 11 years branding.+ Mk3's with lights

Class 50 - BR Large Logo as 50038 "Formidable"

 

Hi @BritishRail60062,

 

The Caledonian Sleeper Class 87 was announced in the 2019 rangeand it's product code is R3751. 

 

Only my view but if Hornby announce a GBRF Class 60 it will probably be 60095 as it was the 1st one in the Livery and Unsure if the Blue 60026 will be in this annoucement due to it being released from the paint shop in the second half of this year. Also I would off sought it be very unlikely that Hornby will announce a DC Rail one this quick after release from the Paint Shop but again if they did it would be probably be 60046. 

 

Samuel.

 

 

[adb968008]

So I got more than a few hints that preservation related models will feature more in the 2020 range this weekend and not just locos, or main stream preservation groups either.

 

One group was positively trying not to burst with hints, whilst another preserved line has a pretty significant anniversary next year.. and has a Hornby concession, seemed to be smiling.

 

Perhaps the old approach of limited editions for select retailers is to be replaced by a more partnered approach with certain models offered generally in the range and affiliated ?

Impressions I was left with... purely a guess, I’m thinking another significant GWR loco or maybe a well known pair of industrials. will be on the cards next year. My dream of an Electrostar too was given some hope, which would make oodles of sense for Hornby, those announced 66’s, plus Rocket, oh and er maybe some preserved modern wagons...

Edited December 6, 2019 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

2020 is 40 years since Hornby first released their APT-P.

[Legend]

39 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

2020 is 40 years since Hornby first released their APT-P.

 

And I remember that catalogue well .  Welcome to our world it said . One of the last classic catalogues I think  featuring a large layout and some hints on how to make it .  To me that was Hornby at their peak .  APT, B17, Fowler 2-6-4T, King ,Caley Tank .  Everything upgraded to paint finish .

 

Hopefully some of the inspiration of that catalogue will be in the 2020 edition , or will it just be a lazy marketing repeat of the last 10 years format?

[Hilux5972]

Really hoping for Hornby to announce the Manor class. If I ask for nothing else for the next 10 years, I’ll be happy with a new Manor. 

[chrism993]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

One group was positively trying not to burst with hints, whilst another preserved line has a pretty significant anniversary next year.. and has a Hornby concession, seemed to be smiling.

 

If this proves to be the case, would love them to do the O1 (too similar to the C?) but as I currently have a rebuilt BoB being worked on at TMC it'll most likely be 'Sir Archie' 

[philiprporter]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

2020 is 40 years since Hornby first released their APT-P.

Exactly my thought. APT and class 81 are what my money is on. Probably dreaming but no harm in that!

[BritishRail60062]

On 25/11/2019 at 20:48, sc2016 said:

 

Hi @BritishRail60062,

 

The Caledonian Sleeper Class 87 was announced in the 2019 rangeand it's product code is R3751. 

 

Only my view but if Hornby announce a GBRF Class 60 it will probably be 60095 as it was the 1st one in the Livery and Unsure if the Blue 60026 will be in this annoucement due to it being released from the paint shop in the second half of this year. Also I would off sought it be very unlikely that Hornby will announce a DC Rail one this quick after release from the Paint Shop but again if they did it would be probably be 60046. 

 

Samuel.

 

 

Hi Samuel,

 

Thanks for that and for highlighting my slip up there. I meant to put Class 73 but for some silly reason. I had the Class 87 on my brain and as far as I am aware. The Class 87 is an AC locomotive and doesn't have third rail capability for DC mode as where the Class 73 is an electro-diesel and can either run on its own power or on the juice from the third rail. Apologies for my glitch there mate ;).

 

 

That with a rake of Mk5's from Accurascale would look cool even on a small layout that take one of those trains . Technically its not accurate for an ex-Lima model but it would "fill" the gap unless Hornby decided to make an all new Class 73/9 from scratch?

[killucan2]

1 hour ago, BritishRail60062 said:

Hi Samuel,

 

Thanks for that and for highlighting my slip up there. I meant to put Class 73 but for some silly reason. I had the Class 87 on my brain and as far as I am aware. The Class 87 is an AC locomotive and doesn't have third rail capability for DC mode as where the Class 73 is an electro-diesel and can either run on its own power or on the juice from the third rail. Apologies for my glitch there mate ;).

 

 

That with a rake of Mk5's from Accurascale would look cool even on a small layout that take one of those trains . Technically its not accurate for an ex-Lima model but it would "fill" the gap unless Hornby decided to make an all new Class 73/9 from scratch?

Hornby class 73/9 don't think so....