Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan

[eldomtom2]

Yes, a Unitrack-esque system would probably go a long way towards fixing Hornby's reputation among the non-enthusiast public for making flimsy train sets that break.

[Dunsignalling]

I spent a while on Saturday at West Camel Show watching a Hornby Ruston sans match wagon happily negotiating dead-frog train-set points on a shunting puzzle layout.

 

Caveat: the track on said layout was impeccably laid on a dead flat, rigid baseboard by S&DJR88 of this parish, who knows his stuff, but it's convinced me of the excellence of this little model.

 

John

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[SDJR7F88]

15 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I spent a while on Saturday at West Camel Show watching a Hornby Ruston sans match wagon happily negotiating dead-frog train-set points on a shunting puzzle layout.

 

Caveat: the track on said layout was impeccably laid on a dead flat, rigid baseboard by S&DJR88 of this parish, who knows his stuff, but it's convinced me of the excellence of this little model.

 

John

 

 

Glad it was of help! Really is a cracking model. Credit goes to Adam for the layout it was running on His new shunting puzzle layout 

[Clearwater]

Left field suggestion.  If I were Hornby, one option I’d consider would be building on my #1 brand in railways by adding a wooden railway range.  I appreciate it’s a crowded field already but the stuff sells.  It complements the “rail” / “train set” perception of the brand.  Interestingly, the gauge on most wooden railways is not dissimilar to oo.  I’d see parents buying it plus the grandparent for grandchildren market as well.  You’d think as a range it would be stockable by a wide range of stores and outlets and not just traditional model rail stores.
 

David

[eldomtom2]

Problem with that is that there's no real way to turn Hornby Wooden Railway buyers into buyers of "regular" Hornby - Hornby Junior could have been a way to achieve this, if they'd produced more than one set.

[gc4946]

1 hour ago, eldomtom2 said:

Problem with that is that there's no real way to turn Hornby Wooden Railway buyers into buyers of "regular" Hornby - Hornby Junior could have been a way to achieve this, if they'd produced more than one set.

 

Marklin myWorld's trains are better developed than Hornby Junior at present http://www.gaugemaster.com/marklinmyworld.html maybe they should be the yardstick Hornby has to aspire to

Edited December 31, 2019 by gc4946

[Clearwater]

1 hour ago, eldomtom2 said:

Problem with that is that there's no real way to turn Hornby Wooden Railway buyers into buyers of "regular" Hornby - Hornby Junior could have been a way to achieve this, if they'd produced more than one set.

I don’t think you need to have direct compatibility.  It’s about a) selling something that capitalises on your brand b) making money - look how much of that stuff sells.... c) look how other products are marketed.  The idea is that you capitalise on what you’re known for, ie trains - I reckon the casual buyer of a wooden train for little Johnny/Joanna would buy Hornby ahead of another brand.  The catalogues in the box include the progression brands for older kids.  You can’t make them buy your main product but you increase the chances of them doing so.

 

the problem with Hornby junior is that it’s not compatible with anything else. Hornby therefore have to spend more on tooling, design etc to sell to someone who wants to add.  You are equally tied into them producing more.  Would you buy product that you can expand through a number of brands or one that is self contained?  Wooden railways are all compatible with each other.  For modest investment, you could build a range that supports your core product and consumers will buy because it is expandable with other brands and is the leading “train” brand.

[Pandora]

The fact that modern houses and rooms are diminishing in size leaving little room for OO  layouts,  would it be a good move for Hornby to extend into N gauge?

Edited December 31, 2019 by Pandora

[Clearwater]

1 hour ago, eldomtom2 said:

Problem with that is that there's no real way to turn Hornby Wooden Railway buyers into buyers of "regular" Hornby - Hornby Junior could have been a way to achieve this, if they'd produced more than one set.

I don’t think you need to have direct compatibility.  It’s about a) selling something that capitalises on your brand b) making money - look how much of that stuff sells.... c) look how other products are marketed.  The idea is that you capitalise on what you’re known for, ie trains - I reckon the casual buyer of a wooden train for little Johnny/Joanna would buy Hornby ahead of another brand.  The catalogues in the box include the progression brands for older kids.  You can’t make them buy your main product but you increase the chances of them doing so.

 

the problem with Hornby junior is that it’s not compatible with anything else. Hornby therefore have to spend more on tooling, design etc to sell to someone who wants to add.  You are equally tied into them producing more.  Would you buy product that you can expand through a number of brands or one that is self contained?  Wooden railways are all compatible with each other.  For modest investment, you could build a range that supports your core product and consumers will buy because it is expandable with other brands and is the leading “train” brand.

[Mel_H]

Given that 'pretty' small locos seem to be popular, and that two are in preservation (giving a range of potential liveries), I'll put a fiver on the North Eastern Railway (NER) Class H, classified as Class Y7 by the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) 0-4-0T being announced. 

[paulbb]

The two market big holes for 4mm -in steam the WR Manor 4-6-0, and in diesel an updated class 06 shunter....

[Amand]

2 hours ago, Mel_H said:

Given that 'pretty' small locos seem to be popular, and that two are in preservation (giving a range of potential liveries), I'll put a fiver on the North Eastern Railway (NER) Class H, classified as Class Y7 by the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) 0-4-0T being announced. 

 

And for those not fortunate enough to have an NER based livery or have a connection to the North East paint it in other bright colours and name it Polly, Connie, Nelly etc. Only tooling change would be the dome.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Amand
I spelt Polly wrongly!

[Mark Saunders]

6 minutes ago, Amand said:

 

And for those not fortunate enough to have an NER based livery or have a connection to the North East paint it in other bright colours and name it Polly, Connie, Nelly etc. Only tooling change would be the dome.

 

Better to start building the North Sunderland Light Railway as they hired two from the LNER/BR.

[Amand]

5 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Better to start building the North Sunderland Light Railway as they hired two from the LNER/BR.

Other than the J79 all the SLR locos are available RTR. I made the Connoisseur J79 in 7mm, the 4mm kit is currently unavailable. Another one for Hornby to consider?

[Steamport Southport]

The return of clockwork.

 

First model is a Q1 just so Stanier can be right about the missing key.   

 

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, Pandora said:

The fact that modern houses and rooms are diminishing in size leaving little room for OO  layouts,  would it be a good move for Hornby to extend into N gauge?

No...

Hornby is Hornby, there is a market expectation of not just locos and stock, but track, scenic etc... That would be a massive investment, just to compete against incumbents and try to grow a new market.

 

Smaller houses smaller layouts... hence the Pecketts, Sentinel are ideal.

 

[Pandora]

Examinig my Bachmann - Farish diesel outline locos vs 4mm examples,  the ratio of part count vs seling price indicates higher margins of profit than OO,  those Farish diesels are so simple in principle to manufacture and assemble, eg the one-piece bodies self-clip to the chassis, no screws, and detailing requirements dissipate due to the miniaturisation  of the model    i truly believe Hornby would make profit if they should  enter the modern image N gauge arena

Edited January 1, 2020 by Pandora

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Pandora said:

Examinig my Bachmann - Farish diesel outline locos vs 4mm examples,  the ratio of part count vs seling price indicates higher margins of profit than OO,  those Farish diesels are so simple in principle to manufacture and assemble, eg the one-piece bodies self-clip to the chassis, no screws, and detailing requirements dissipate due to the miniaturisation  of the model    i truly believe Hornby would make profit if they should  enter the modern image N gauge arena

O gauge seems to have been the real growth area in recent years, and one of the dominant N gauge players seems to have back-pedalled on it somewhat in favour of expanding its presence in both O and OO.

 

The problem for Hornby, in going for any new (or old, but let's not get into that) scale, would be their long-established status as a "full system" provider. That's what everybody expects from them and I don't consider they could get away with just "having a dabble" in a new market segment.    

 

OK, they did exactly that with the Brighton Belle models, albeit using their Arnold brand. I half-expected them to follow that up with another "complete train" package, but everything went quiet and it looks increasingly likely that Hornby's toe didn't find the temperature of the UK N gauge pond to its liking.

 

John

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

First model is a Q1 just so Stanier can be right about the missing key.

 

But will Hornby produce a key with an X number for when YOU miss the key too...

[Fenman]

7 hours ago, Pandora said:

Examinig my Bachmann - Farish diesel outline locos vs 4mm examples,  the ratio of part count vs seling price indicates higher margins of profit than OO,  those Farish diesels are so simple in principle to manufacture and assemble, eg the one-piece bodies self-clip to the chassis, no screws, and detailing requirements dissipate due to the miniaturisation  of the model    i truly believe Hornby would make profit if they should  enter the modern image N gauge arena

 

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

O gauge seems to have been the real growth area in recent years, and one of the dominant N gauge players seems to have back-pedalled on it somewhat in favour of expanding its presence in both O and OO.

 

The problem for Hornby, in going for any new (or old, but let's not get into that) scale, would be their long-established status as a "full system" provider. That's what everybody expects from them and I don't consider they could get away with just "having a dabble" in a new market segment.    

 

OK, they did exactly that with the Brighton Belle models, albeit using their Arnold brand. I half-expected them to follow that up with another "complete train" package, but everything went quiet and it looks increasingly likely that Hornby's toe didn't find the temperature of the UK N gauge pond to its liking.

 

...

 

I'm with Dunsignalling on this question. The problem Pandora has is that the simple calculation doesn't work - there are huge overhead costs in creating a model. The much smaller market for N means those costs have to be spread over a smaller number of models. Therefore the pressure when it comes to trying to add a margin onto each nodel is likely to be very much greater in N.

 

The behaviour of manufacturers working in more than one scale may be instructive. The recent rush of several manufacturers into 0 has been very striking -- and the price differentials among those might suggest that there are truly huge (relatively) margins to be made in that scale (the ongoing financial problems of both Hornby and Bachmann may, at least in part, suggest 00 is much more problematic).

 

A few years back Hornby made a sort of half-hearted attempt to revive Bassett-Lowke, though even at the time it struck me as swimming against the tide where most of the market is demanding ever-greater detail. I still think there's potentially profit for them in 0 gauge; their experiments with N suggest that, for them, it is not particularly profitable.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kernowtim]

21 minutes ago, Fenman said:

 

 

A few years back Hornby made a sort of half-hearted attempt to revive Bassett-Lowke, though even at the time it struck me as swimming against the tide where most of the market is demanding ever-greater detail. I still think there's potentially profit for them in 0 gauge; their experiments with N suggest that, for them, it is not particularly profitable.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

One of the guys behind the Corgi revival of bassett lowke started up W J (as in Wenman Joseph Bassett-Lowke) Vintage who specialize in vintage style O gauge.

 http://www.wjvintage.co.uk/

Together with the likes of ace trains who offer an expanding range of products, and seeing what the corgi bassett-lowke models now sell for indicates this could be a market for Hornby to re-enter, on the  100th anniversary of the 100th Hornby Railway system!

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The return of clockwork.

 

First model is a Q1 just so Stanier can be right about the missing key.   

 

 

 

 

Jason

The obvious candidate would be a Jinty, some even had a prototypical opening where you'd want to put the keyhole.

 

John

[Legend]

7 hours ago, Pandora said:

Examinig my Bachmann - Farish diesel outline locos vs 4mm examples,  the ratio of part count vs seling price indicates higher margins of profit than OO,  those Farish diesels are so simple in principle to manufacture and assemble, eg the one-piece bodies self-clip to the chassis, no screws, and detailing requirements dissipate due to the miniaturisation  of the model    i truly believe Hornby would make profit if they should  enter the modern image N gauge arena

 

 

Assumes pricing is based on the cost of something . More likely it’s based on how much manufacturers think enthusiasts will pay. That’s why Class 66s suddenly dropped in price , it wasn’t that the cost of Chinese Labour was cheaper overnight . 

[caradoc]

Surely the biggest hole in OO RTR has to be 25kV EMUs ? Still scarcely anything available, for any decade or area of interest. As mentioned before the 313/4/5/507/8 family would seem an obvious start, or how about a Class 309 Clacton/Walton set ? Based on the Mark 1 coach, which Hornby already make, there were 2-car sets so not the initial expense of making or buying 4 cars, and just like the real thing the 2-car sets can be extended to 4-cars with LHCS !

 

[Phil Parker]

8 hours ago, Pandora said:

Examinig my Bachmann - Farish diesel outline locos vs 4mm examples,  the ratio of part count vs seling price indicates higher margins of profit than OO,  those Farish diesels are so simple in principle to manufacture and assemble, eg the one-piece bodies self-clip to the chassis, no screws, and detailing requirements dissipate due to the miniaturisation  of the model

 

How old are your locos? The Class 40 is a mass of plastic and etched brass. The C Class loco has 6 different colours in the printing of the lettering on the side. Modern N gauge is far from the poor relation of OO that it used to be.