Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan

[ruggedpeak]

I noted this comment "A whole series of partnerships with other film and TV franchises are coming down the line" from Lyndon the other day. I wonder if it feed into Monday's announcements?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/12/31/traditional-toys-meet-digital-devices-Hornby-staying-relevant/

 

I would also like all manufacturers to not go to endless detail if this means bits keep falling off. If you can't glue it on reliably in the factory then mould it (heresy, I know!).

[No Decorum]

38 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

I would also like all manufacturers to not go to endless detail if this means bits keep falling off. If you can't glue it on reliably in the factory then mould it (heresy, I know!).

If it isn’t glued on reliably in the factory, then *@$%ing make sure it is. Amongst the lesser woes of Bachmann’s 90 are buffers falling off. On two of my three, some had. They were a push fit – some were tight enough when replaced, some needed a touch of glue. Not a major problem but it shouldn’t happen. On of the buffers was broken, so the model had to be returned for a fix. Probably it would have been cheaper all round to post me a replacement buffer but things just don’t seem to work that way.

[Mel_H]

8 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

If it isn’t glued on reliably in the factory, then *@$%ing make sure it is. Amongst the lesser woes of Bachmann’s 90 are buffers falling off. On two of my three, some had. They were a push fit – some were tight enough when replaced, some needed a touch of glue. Not a major problem but it shouldn’t happen. On of the buffers was broken, so the model had to be returned for a fix. Probably it would have been cheaper all round to post me a replacement buffer but things just don’t seem to work that way.

If anyone wants to understand the production processes and why bits occasionally 'fall off', then look at Rapido's videos that show real-life production lines and processes. Modern OO models (the high-end ones) are highly detailed, intricate things that push the boundaries of what's possible. I think that rather than commenting on QC, we should be prepared to do a little remedial work now and then. Of course, for many locos (especially diesels) there is the Railroad range from Hornby, or secondhand older examples from others. As Tony Wright often says in his reviews, to bring us back down to earth, the price of a handbuilt model from a kit with the decoration and finish of today's RTR would be significantly more (well over double). We have never had it so good! (Retreats to safety of bunker...)

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, Mel_H said:

If anyone wants to understand the production processes and why bits occasionally 'fall off', then look at Rapido's videos that show real-life production lines and processes. Modern OO models (the high-end ones) are highly detailed, intricate things that push the boundaries of what's possible. I think that rather than commenting on QC, we should be prepared to do a little remedial work now and then. Of course, for many locos (especially diesels) there is the Railroad range from Hornby, or secondhand older examples from others. As Tony Wright often says in his reviews, to bring us back down to earth, the price of a handbuilt model from a kit with the decoration and finish of today's RTR would be significantly more (well over double). We have never had it so good! (Retreats to safety of bunker...)

 

Personally I've never had anything drastically wrong with any models.

 

But, and a big but, would you put up with an electrical appliance that doesn't work or is damaged on receipt?

 

Then why should we expect models that often cost more than those electrical goods not to be perfect? You don't fix your new fridge or your computer if it is broken. You get a replacement from the manufacturer or retailer.

 

 

 

Jason

[ruggedpeak]

1 minute ago, Mel_H said:

If anyone wants to understand the production processes and why bits occasionally 'fall off', then look at Rapido's videos that show real-life production lines and processes. Modern OO models (the high-end ones) are highly detailed, intricate things that push the boundaries of what's possible. I think that rather than commenting on QC, we should be prepared to do a little remedial work now and then. Of course, for many locos (especially diesels) there is the Railroad range from Hornby, or secondhand older examples from others. As Tony Wright often says in his reviews, to bring us back down to earth, the price of a handbuilt model from a kit with the decoration and finish of today's RTR would be significantly more (well over double). We have never had it so good! (Retreats to safety of bunker...)

The point I was alluding to is whether we are reaching a point where models are becoming so detailed and intricate that they become less user friendly for anything other than sitting in a display case. I note a letter in the latest issue of BRM (available free today only!) complaining about fragile bodyshells.

[No Decorum]

7 minutes ago, Mel_H said:

We have never had it so good! (Retreats to safety of bunker...)

No need to retreat. You’re quite right. Despite the slip ups, we have never had it so good. To back up Tony Wright’s point, I can contrast my kit-built plain black C Class with its crooked boiler-smokebox join to Bachmann’s wonderful model.

 

All the same, it is frustrating when things go wrong.

 

Little things, such as Hornby’s stripes on the nose of a streamlined Stanier. Perhaps it wouldn’t have bothered me so much if Hornby hadn’t managed to do it properly on the older model. It is a minor thing but it was enough to change my mind about buying one. You might well say that was petty and silly but I already have older models and was disinclined to buy a new one with the shortcoming. Bear in mind also that models are increasing in price and competition is fierce. I haven’t so much refused to buy Hornby’s model out of pique as directed my limited funds elsewhere.

 

Major things, such as the bogies falling out of Bachmann’s bodies. Due to overtightening of the fixing screws, we are told. Perhaps a beefier connection to cope with overtightening? A lesson to learn?

 

It is in the manufacturers’ interests to get things right. I say again, models are expensive (not a complaint), most customers’ funds are limited and competition is keen.

[wombatofludham]

I wonder if Hornby will milk the post 1997 Class 87 tooling again and release the one-off freak celebrity liveries the class carried during their stay of execution with Virgin in 2005-6?  "Purple Ronnie", the "LNWR" black "ACORP" livery and the faux NSE "Back the Bid" locos were quite a regular turn on the London-Birmingham-Wolverhampton circuit after the final timetabled use by Virgin in May 2005 and would no doubt be popular with collectors as well as those who could find a use for them as models.  Plus it would boost sales of the Virgin Mk3s and DVTs.

More useful would be an Executive liveried 87 but do they make them with the TDM and MU boxes together as they ran from 1986 until 1992, or as the last few Executive liveried examples ran with the MU boxes removed during 1992-5?

[D9020 Nimbus]

I think the problem with a Hornby move into N gauge is that the type of locos Hornby likes to produce—Pacifics and the like—have all been done to a high standard (with the exception of the WC/BoB which Dapol are working on). The locos which aren't available are generally types which have been done in OO by Bachmann, or where the OO version hasn't sold particularly well.

In diesels, the main things missing are some of the 1st Generation DMUs (105 and original Derby lightweight), and the "25/3" — the latter being probably the most significant—and one where Bachmann have lost out to Heljan in OO.

If Hornby want something smaller than OO, it's not impossible they could go for TT...

[MGR Hooper!]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Personally I've never had anything drastically wrong with any models.

 

But, and a big but, would you put up with an electrical appliance that doesn't work or is damaged on receipt?

 

Then why should we expect models that often cost more than those electrical goods not to be perfect? You don't fix your new fridge or your computer if it is broken. You get a replacement from the manufacturer or retailer.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Immediately off the bat when you think of electronic appliances you'd think of any household items ranging from your washing machine/fridge to blenders/hair dryers....these things don't have fiddly bits on the outside like handrails, lamp irons, buffers, antennas, grab rails, brakepipes etc. Most electrical appliances are rather smooth and plain on the outside with buttons.

 

So not really a fair comparison in my opinion. Besides they're two different scales altogether. Model trains are miniatures with a lot of external detailing prone to getting damaged even with the utmost care in handling. There's a lot of appliances which you can throw and they'll still survive.

[MGR Hooper!]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Personally I've never had anything drastically wrong with any models.

 

But, and a big but, would you put up with an electrical appliance that doesn't work or is damaged on receipt?

 

Then why should we expect models that often cost more than those electrical goods not to be perfect? You don't fix your new fridge or your computer if it is broken. You get a replacement from the manufacturer or retailer.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Immediately off the bat when you think of electronic appliances you'd think of any household items ranging from your washing machine/fridge to blenders/hair dryers....these things don't have fiddly bits on the outside like handrails, lamp irons, buffers, antennas, grab rails, brakepipes etc. Most electrical appliances are rather smooth and plain on the outside with buttons.

 

So not really a fair comparison in my opinion. Besides they're two different scales altogether. Model trains are miniatures with a lot of external detailing prone to getting damaged even with the utmost care in handling. There's a lot of appliances which you can throw and they'll still survive.

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

Immediately off the bat when you think of electronic appliances you'd think of any household items ranging from your washing machine/fridge to blenders/hair dryers....these things don't have fiddly bits on the outside like handrails, lamp irons, buffers, antennas, grab rails, brakepipes etc. Most electrical appliances are rather smooth and plain on the outside with buttons.

 

So not really a fair comparison in my opinion. Besides they're two different scales altogether. Model trains are miniatures with a lot of external detailing prone to getting damaged even with the utmost care in handling. There's a lot of appliances which you can throw and they'll still survive.

 

Don't they come in boxes?

 

But if I'm paying upwards of £150 for a model then I expect it to arrive in perfect condition. Whether that's the delivery company, retailer or manufactures fault I couldn't care less. I expect a replacement.

 

Maybe it's a British thing not to complain. But I work in retail so I know my rights.

 

The three Rs of retail. Repair, Replacement, Refund. You should be offered these options by law.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited January 1, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[EdChap]

Saw this on Facebook. Your thoughts.....

 

 

 

 

[atom3624]

Yeah, I want to think of a TPE 802 'out of the box' and on my tracks!!

 

Al.

[miles73128]

13 minutes ago, EdChap said:

Saw this on Facebook. Your thoughts.....

 

 

 

 

Hhhhmmmmm, well that’s chucking a Gauntlet......

[JSpencer]

The new range will come outside the box.

[Neal Ball]

On the Hattons Youtube show this afternoon - they suggested "new features" - which would follow with the "out of the box" .

 

Intriguing....

[mswjr]

Hornby are going to go into the virtual reality world ,Simon has mentioned this in the past, That is what I am thinking.

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't they come in boxes?

 

But if I'm paying upwards of £150 for a model then I expect it to arrive in perfect condition. Whether that's the delivery company, retailer or manufactures fault I couldn't care less. I expect a replacement.

 

Maybe it's a British thing not to complain. But I work in retail so I know my rights.

 

Same thing happens to models in the US, and I assume elsewhere in the world.  It is likely simply not possible to design a detailed model with separate parts that will survive the handling by the various postal services and couriers - and the manufacturers do try.

 

And I somehow doubt something as large and heavy as fridge gets treated with the same disdain by the shippers as a small box with a loco or wagon in it, and yet I am guessing that some still arrived damaged.

[ruggedpeak]

24 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Same thing happens to models in the US, and I assume elsewhere in the world.  It is likely simply not possible to design a detailed model with separate parts that will survive the handling by the various postal services and couriers - and the manufacturers do try.

 

And I somehow doubt something as large and heavy as fridge gets treated with the same disdain by the shippers as a small box with a loco or wagon in it, and yet I am guessing that some still arrived damaged.

Not scientific proof but I note that as someone who buys a reasonable number of D&E locos my experience is that some Bachmann and Hornby models have turned up either damaged (not clear if factory or delivery related) or in several cases had seven shades of wotsit kicked out of them (delivery related). However to date locos in the Dapol/Hattons style of of larger foam lined box have all arrived intact and working.

[GWRtrainman]

9 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Not scientific proof but I note that as someone who buys a reasonable number of D&E locos my experience is that some Bachmann and Hornby models have turned up either damaged (not clear if factory or delivery related) or in several cases had seven shades of wotsit kicked out of them (delivery related). However to date locos in the Dapol/Hattons style of of larger foam lined box have all arrived intact and working.

Certainly not scientific if you read the Hattons forum where a fair number of faulty Class 66 are being mentioned with bits fallen off, dropping off after arrival or simply missing.  

 

It it happens to all manufacturers - the models are delicate and over detailed not to have some damage in shipping from time to time. 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by GWRtrainman

[ruggedpeak]

5 minutes ago, GWRtrainman said:

Certainly not scientific if you read the Hattons forum where a fair number of faulty Class 66 are being mentioned with bits fallen off, dropping off after arrival or simply missing.  

 

It it happens to all manufacturers - the models are delicate and over detailed not to have some damage in shipping from time to time. 

 

I've had bits drop off my Hattons 66 but that was a factory/design/manufacturing fault, not delivery or packaging. I think these are 2 different things. If a bit is missing then I doubt it was lost in transit, that's a failure at the point of manufacturing.

[ThaneofFife]

5 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I wonder if Hornby will milk the post 1997 Class 87 tooling again and release the one-off freak celebrity liveries the class carried during their stay of execution with Virgin in 2005-6?  "Purple Ronnie", the "LNWR" black "ACORP" livery and the faux NSE "Back the Bid" locos were quite a regular turn on the London-Birmingham-Wolverhampton circuit after the final timetabled use by Virgin in May 2005 and would no doubt be popular with collectors as well as those who could find a use for them as models.  Plus it would boost sales of the Virgin Mk3s and DVTs.

More useful would be an Executive liveried 87 but do they make them with the TDM and MU boxes together as they ran from 1986 until 1992, or as the last few Executive liveried examples ran with the MU boxes removed during 1992-5?

with heljans 86404 in executive livery due I would like to see Hornby do the same livery (i think when the 87s had the repaint they all went over to a high speed pan except 87009 initially) with original MU jumpers and no high intensity headlight.   be great for double headers.....

[ThaneofFife]

wonder if they can amalgamate the plug door mk3s with the older tooling or use the new plug version tooling but with old style swing doors?

 

maybe we might see a return of the Mk3 in executive Pullman livery with crests?   The old Lima versions were ok but are very dated now and the ends and roof vents were amongst other things poorly rendered for a mk3a.  also a new tooled mk3 sleeper for the same reasons again in executive inter-city sleeper branding.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

I've had bits drop off my Hattons 66 but that was a factory/design/manufacturing fault, not delivery or packaging. I think these are 2 different things. If a bit is missing then I doubt it was lost in transit, that's a failure at the point of manufacturing.

Should have bought a Hornby 66, there aren't any bit to fall off.

[Legend]

5 hours ago, miles73128 said:

Hhhhmmmmm, well that’s chucking a Gauntlet......

 

i’ll Bite. New A3 . Wouldn’t surprise me