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Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan


phil gollin
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6 hours ago, EdChap said:

Saw this on Facebook. Your thoughts.....

 

 

 

 

He’s going to do away with the yellow and make the boxes all red?

He’s not going to produce any new rolling stock at all?

He’s going to stop selling through retailers?

He’s going to introduce a range of Olympic tat?

He’s going to produce an integrated road system in high detail 00?

He’s going to produce baseboards with all track and scenery in place at astronomical prices?

He’s going to introduce a new control system which makes all your trains collide when someone rings your mobile?

He’s going to put cameras in the cabs of all diesels and electrics?

He’s not … is he? … could he possibly? … might he just be thinking of locos with room for decoders?

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So in 2020, everything will be supplied out of the box.

 

This has 2 positive impacts:

1/ no more pollution from Hornby packaging

2/ no more box opening videos on Hornby products

 

Edited by JSpencer
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On 31/12/2019 at 15:04, Clearwater said:

Left field suggestion.  If I were Hornby, one option I’d consider would be building on my #1 brand in railways by adding a wooden railway range.  I appreciate it’s a crowded field already but the stuff sells.  It complements the “rail” / “train set” perception of the brand.  Interestingly, the gauge on most wooden railways is not dissimilar to oo.  I’d see parents buying it plus the grandparent for grandchildren market as well.  You’d think as a range it would be stockable by a wide range of stores and outlets and not just traditional model rail stores.
 

David

 

that is a good idea, but could one issue be if the buyers are not modellers, could it attract confusion between what is a normal Hornby train and what goes on wooden i.e. could some folk buy wooden expecting to run on normal 00 gauge track and vice versa. the branding would need to be clear

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I suspect it will be VR railways in some form or other and perhaps on-board cameras, plus a release of 'celebratory' models from the back catalogue, hopefully something like an AL1 and APT (OK, OK, I know these are my dream wishlist!) made to contemporary standards, and a smattering of new releases - hopefully (and I'm dreaming again) a 25kv EMU and the LNER blue-grey HST set in the super-detailed form - not holding my breath on that last one in particular given the recent blue-grey Railroad release, but it would fit with the overall celebration theme and Hornby were first to release an HST back in the 80s (or may even have been the late 70s?). 

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7 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

that is a good idea, but could one issue be if the buyers are not modellers, could it attract confusion between what is a normal Hornby train and what goes on wooden i.e. could some folk buy wooden expecting to run on normal 00 gauge track and vice versa. the branding would need to be clear


Fair comments!  As with any 30 second idea, it needs real thought and development to handle potential issues.  I’m trying to think more strategically.  And by that I don’t mean producing a pink polka dot class 94b that’s ideal for my niche Pippa Penguin themed layout, I’m trying to look at what are the strengths of the brand, what capabilities (eg sales reps, design skills) and aspirations of where/who to sell to does the company have.  Hence you look at the core and see what else you could logically add on.  I think the VR stuff is a good idea but a crowded and expensive field to develop in.  You’ll get quickly overtaken and need lots of ongoing investment.  I wouldn’t do it.  I don’t think wooden trains has the same ongoing risks (the wooden trains my kids have are fundamentally the same as the ones I had 40 years ago though the range of what you get is larger!) albeit l agree with you that you’d need to think how the marketing works to support and augment your core brands.  Eg it wouldn’t be hard to make a wooden figure of 8 track and call it Wooden Scalextrix.  
 

David

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12 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Should have bought a Hornby 66, there aren't any bit to fall off.:jester:

Yet to have bits fall off my Bachmann ones either!

 

The Hornby end of the 66 market is probably the one experiencing significant growth so from a business perspective it may be the place to be. There is clearly a parallel market in 66's emerging between the 'H's'! Hattons at one end and Hornby at other, with Bachmann squeezed in the middle.

 

With Accurascale doing the 37's it would be a good time for Hornby to resurrect their basic 37 in newer liveries.

 

I also think a less detailed but fully operational RHTT with hissing noise would be a big seller! And a GA Flirt set complete with bridge and exploding pantograph action.

Edited by ruggedpeak
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It sounds to me like they're planning to take advantage of the mainstream attention the hobby's been getting recently, perhaps looking at more beginner-oriented items and sets?

 

I'm guessing thinking outside of the box is a reference to simplified, more environmentally-friendly packaging, which to be honest is no bad thing.

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20 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Yet to have bits fall off my Bachmann ones either!

 

The Hornby end of the 66 market is probably the one experiencing significant growth so from a business perspective it may be the place to be. There is clearly a parallel market in 66's emerging between the 'H's'! Hattons at one end and Hornby at other, with Bachmann squeezed in the middle.

 

With Accurascale doing the 37's it would be a good time for Hornby to resurrect their basic 37 in newer liveries.

 

I also think a less detailed but fully operational RHTT with hissing noise would be a big seller! And a GA Flirt set complete with bridge and exploding pantograph action.

 

Hornby might also re-run their Limby 47s in response to last year's Heljan's announcement of their newly re-tooled 47s

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29 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

It sounds to me like they're planning to take advantage of the mainstream attention the hobby's been getting recently, perhaps looking at more beginner-oriented items and sets?

 

I'm guessing thinking outside of the box is a reference to simplified, more environmentally-friendly packaging, which to be honest is no bad thing.

I'm not sure exactly how much simpler Hornby packaging (in most cases, one cardboard box, one vac-formed plastic insert) could be made without compromising the protection it affords the contents. Any improvement can only come from a change of insert/window material.  

 

The stuff already in existence has done what it has done and will only become a further environmental issue when/if disposed of.

 

I'd suggest most the boxes/inserts in which our trains arrive remain intact, either for storing the models or tucked away in the loft  just in case we decide to sell-on the original occupants.  I reckon all mine must add significantly to my roof insulation so can probably be regarded positively :bad:.  

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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10 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I reckon all mine must add significantly to my roof insulation so can probably be regarded positively :bad:.  

I remember when my dad moved all the plastic poly boxes for our models to the loft in the 1980’s... my bedroom instantly became much warmer, that night.

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21 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I'm not sure exactly how much simpler Hornby packaging (in most cases, one cardboard box, one vac-formed plastic insert) could be made without compromising the protection it affords the contents. Any improvement can only come from a change of insert/window material.  

 

The stuff already in existence has done what it has done and will only become a further environmental issue when/if disposed of.

 

I'd suggest most the boxes/inserts in which our trains arrive remain intact, either for storing the models or tucked away in the loft  just in case we decide to sell-on the original occupants.  I reckon all mine must add significantly to my roof insulation so can probably be regarded positively :bad:.  

 

John

Maybe one of the Hornby team bought an item from the same eBay seller as me, Limby 47, loco wrapped in newspaper then brown paper, and sent through the post - arrived with not one bit of damage

 

That'll cut down their environmental impact!!!!

 

In the same delivery I received a new Dapol 121, from a retailer, which arrived in bits with no buffers (and a note in the box to say checked and tested!!!!)

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20 hours ago, EdChap said:

Saw this on Facebook. Your thoughts.....

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. My prediction is some sort of virtual reality along the lines of being able to see a new loco/coach/wagon on your layout without it actually being there through the screen of a tablet or smartphone. A sort of virtual try before you buy. Been used in children’s toys for years.

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Just now, bart2day said:

Interesting. My prediction is some sort of virtual reality along the lines of being able to see a new product on your layout without it actually being there through the screen of a tablet or smartphone. A sort of virtual try before you buy. Been used in children’s toys for years.

 

How would it know where the track is? And if your layout is P4, would it virtually derail? ;-)

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On 13/11/2019 at 17:32, Phil Parker said:

How about the return of TT? You could tick the gold plated box too!

 

Tri-ang+TT+Golden+Train+01.jpg

 

Put me down for a set!

 

Hi Phil,

 

You probably meant this with tongue in cheek but it could be a really bold move on Hornby's part.  TT seems a perfect combination of size. detail and durability.  I am an N gauge modeller but even I can see that TT offers that wee bit more.  TT models/system with DCC, sound and 21st century detail could prove very popular.  It would be require a significant investment though but Hornby would have the market to themselves.

 

Sadly, I don't believe Hornby have the financial reserves to do this yet even though Mr Kohler is a fan of TT.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

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I always thought that a 1/100th scale would be a way to go and can be easily tied in with model plane and military vehicle kits.

 

Unfortunately it is too late for me, far too much OO for me to want to convert and my aging eyesight is hinting O gauge would be a scale of choice to jump too!

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21 minutes ago, Paddy said:

You probably meant this with tongue in cheek but it could be a really bold move on Hornby's part.  TT seems a perfect combination of size. detail and durability.  I am an N gauge modeller but even I can see that TT offers that wee bit more.  TT models/system with DCC, sound and 21st century detail could prove very popular. 

 

I agree, TT would be a very interesting scale offering a sort of ideal compromise between the size benefits of OO with the space benefits of N (and similarly I feel S would be a better choice than O, offering that extra size/mass that makes things better than OO, but without the space issues that O has).

 

But...

 

21 minutes ago, Paddy said:

It would be require a significant investment though but Hornby would have the market to themselves.

 

Yes, it would be a significant investment - but it would be bad to have the market to themselves as it would reduce the odds of success.  Any such move (and I do feel it is very unlikely) would be better done with some communication to the competitors indicating that a move to offer something in TT was happening.  First, unlikely such a thing would remain a secret in China anyway, but secondly and more importantly modellers are more likely to buy into TT (or S, or any other scale change) if they can buy track from Peco and get a selection of models from more than one manufacturer - there is less perceived risk of abandonment of a new scale if multiple companies are pushing it as well as a greater variety of initial items without one company undertaking a significant financial burden.

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Hi Mdvale,

 

Have you seen the Corgi TT steam loco models?  They are stunning and something like this from Hornby would be great.  I could see TT working as a "toy" scale/gauge which is compatible with the high end models.  The play value from a TT set could be so much greater than OO given the space saving.  It would also need to be a total system i.e. track, buildings, rolling stock, locomotives etc.  Coming back to your point, some coordination with the likes of PECO etc. could prove a real bonus in getting the range established.

 

Sadly I fear such a bold move is likely to lead to more fragmentation of what is a relatively small market of British model railways.   It could be fun though!

 

As an N gauge modeller, I would love to see Hornby enter the market but common sense would suggest it would be better to do this as Arnold.  This would be one way of expanding the Arnold brand/business and sharing development costs of chassis, motors etc.  By all means stick "Arnold - A Hornby Company" on the packaging if that helps to sell.

 

As for O gauge, they have the Bassett Lowke brand - why not use this to enter that market but with a range of high detailed models.

 

We live in interesting times.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

 

 

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ooooh VR railways, along the same lines (ha) as our gaming friends...you can interact with your mates running trains along 'real' railways using either real time or quick time...you'll have to sign up to a monthly subscription with routes and locos being added every few weeks...my money is on the Settle to Carlisle as the first line with a Peak and a Jubilee as the first offerings...

 

...and if you don't want to run trains, then sit back in the armchair of Ais Gill box and watch as the trains rattle past your windows, alternatively, get involved, learn your bell codes and get the kettle on as rule 55 applies and the fireman off the Anhydrite train you've had in the up loop for half an hour is about to knock on your door...

 

However if this isn't Hornby's announcement then someone will pick this up (there are an awful lot of really good VR stuff out there, just ask Google).

 

A/box

PS 'quick time' is probably copyright somewhere apologies if it is, baggsy if it isn't.

Edited by Axlebox
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55 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Hi Mdvale,

 

Have you seen the Corgi TT steam loco models?  They are stunning and something like this from Hornby would be great.  I could see TT working as a "toy" scale/gauge which is compatible with the high end models.  The play value from a TT set could be so much greater than OO given the space saving.  It would also need to be a total system i.e. track, buildings, rolling stock, locomotives etc.  Coming back to your point, some coordination with the likes of PECO etc. could prove a real bonus in getting the range established.

 

 

 

 

 

Which is the essence of the problem for Hornby if they were to diversify into any other scale, but TT in particular. I reckon that, in order to be taken seriously, a new TT range would need, from the get-go, a minimum of four locos, half a dozen coaches and a dozen wagons (plus all the other stuff). The level of investment required would constitute a gamble big enough to finish the company if it went badly. 

 

Hornby are, by no means, yet out of the woods in financial terms and strengthening their core offering is the only real option open to them right now.

 

I'm guessing that the game-changing development, hinted at in Simon Kohler's short message, will be something designed to broaden the hobby's appeal on the back of the success of the GMRC on TV.

 

An earlier post mentioned (in jest) forward-facing micro-cameras in loco cabs, I expect them in all seriousness, and sooner rather than later. Many DCC users already control their layouts via smartphones or tablets, and a driver's-eye view  would be a logical addition with serious wow-factor.

 

John 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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5 minutes ago, Axlebox said:

However if this isn't Hornby's announcement then someone will pick this up (there are an awful lot of really good VR stuff out there, just as Google).

 

 

 I'm guessing you're having a slack day at work and have nobody to shake a stick at?

 

 Somehow I don't think it will ever quite have the appeal or entertainment value of the type of driving (Courtesy of the lads) you were doing last week. I mean, the laughs in Middlebrough were heard on Tyneside when you managed to get seven 21 ton hoppers to all lie over on their sides in a single fluid and fully synchronised motion that Busby Berkeley would have been proud of.

 

P

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9 minutes ago, Axlebox said:

ooooh VR railways, along the same lines (ha) as our gaming friends...you can interact with your mates running trains along 'real' railways using either real time or quick time...you'll have to sign up to a monthly subscription with routes and locos being added every few weeks...my money is on the Settle to Carlisle as the first line with a Peak and a Jubilee as the first offerings...

 

...and if you don't want to run trains, then sit back in the armchair of Ais Gill box and watch as the trains rattle past your windows, alternatively, get involved, learn your bell codes and get the kettle on as rule 55 applies and the fireman off the Anhydrite train you've had in the up loop for half an hour is about to knock on your door...

 

However if this isn't Hornby's announcement then someone will pick this up (there are an awful lot of really good VR stuff out there, just as Google).

 

A/box

PS 'quick time' is probably copyright somewhere apologies if it is, baggsy if it isn't.

One way or another, most (if not all) of that is already available from established providers of rail simulation software.

 

John 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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8 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

 I'm guessing you're having a slack day at work and have nobody to shake a stick at?

 

Uncle P, the world of work does still (at the time of writing) allow you a lunch break!

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1 hour ago, Paddy said:

 

Hi Phil,

 

You probably meant this with tongue in cheek but it could be a really bold move on Hornby's part.  TT seems a perfect combination of size. detail and durability.  I am an N gauge modeller but even I can see that TT offers that wee bit more.  TT models/system with DCC, sound and 21st century detail could prove very popular.  It would be require a significant investment though but Hornby would have the market to themselves.

 

Sadly, I don't believe Hornby have the financial reserves to do this yet even though Mr Kohler is a fan of TT.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

They looked very seriously at TT a few years back and did some market research which reportedly (from one of those they asked) was quite favourable.  But they didn't go ahead reportedly because of the investment needed.  If they were to go into they would obviously need to do a complete system approach and it would take a lot of cash so I suspect it won't even be on the cooker top let alone sitting on the back burner.

 

While they have access to substantial loan funds they will also have to repay them in a relatively short time (unless they can refinance to repay them) so clearly anything they invest in now has to produce a good level of return.  The PNC loan, offering a maximum draw down of £12 million was for 5 years from 2018 although Hornby said they didn't expect to have to fully use it but it would strengthen their balance sheet.  While they also have the £6million rolling 3 year loan from Phoenix available they are effectively having to look at paying not only an any interest on money they actually use but also a charge on the facility as well.  All of which says to me that what they do invest and where they invest it must produce sufficient return to help increase sales/profitability and thus the contribution to their bottom line while particularly bearing in mind the life of the PNC loan.

 

Thus I think any radical departures in their range of products are going to be unlikely to happen in the model railway field except perhaps at the lower price/starter area of such things as introductory type models and, hopefully the Railroad range where the sub-brand still - in my view - needs to be more clearly defined and marketed.   Whether what some people see as 'gimmicks' can be added in those areas is another question but, again, I'm sure whatever they do come up with is going to have to start making real returns from Year 1 and substantially so in Year 2.  Action accessories will probably be fairly cheap to develop and manufacture and could help capture the entry level market encouraged by the GMRC tv series but the question will always remain as to whether that market is likely to be large enough anyway?  

 

What can I think be fairly said is that Hornby are living in interesting times which will hopefully turn into profitable times.

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