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Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan


phil gollin
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5 hours ago, jamie.dunn said:

I was thinking about the APT-P the other day being quite iconic model, so I’m wondering if a re-tool of that ( I’m sorry if it’s been mentioned already , I’ve only just found the thread) 

Yep as far as D&E is concerned APT was my best guess (from many pages back) along with an early AC electric to contemporary standards (class 81 probably the most likely? Hopefully with proper space for sound this time!)  and maybe the full fat super detailed HST in blue and grey. All iconic and all previously in the Hornby range in some form or other.

 

I can't help but think it will all have an 'iconic trains through the ages' type theme. Maybe way off here, especially with the 'outside the box' comments. 

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"Think out of the box"  Simon has been spending time on The Bay and has realised how much empty boxes go for, So from now on all new Locos will be supplied "out of the box" as he's flogged em all !

 

Hat  Coat   Gone   :jester:

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Iron minks and GPVs are proven sellers from Hornby Dublo days, and as kits; you might be on to something there, Dan...

Your mention of kits got me thinking then.

Why don't Hornby make wagon kits again?  It would complement their rtr and airfix ranges perfectly and probably give them higher margins due to reduced assembly costs.

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40 minutes ago, Mattc6911 said:

"Think out of the box"  Simon has been spending time on The Bay and has realised how much empty boxes go for, So from now on all new Locos will be supplied "out of the box" as he's flogged em all !

 

Hat  Coat   Gone   :jester:

 

Or RyanAir style, you have to pay extra for a box?

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54 minutes ago, MonsalDan said:

Your mention of kits got me thinking then.

Why don't Hornby make wagon kits again?  It would complement their rtr and airfix ranges perfectly and probably give them higher margins due to reduced assembly costs.

Airfix and Hornby both are household names to the general public - a "Hornby Airfix" range would certainly attract attention, though to sell to the general public a loco kit would probably be required.

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9 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Airfix and Hornby both are household names to the general public - a "Hornby Airfix" range would certainly attract attention, though to sell to the general public a loco kit would probably be required.

 

Parkside did all right without loco kits!

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Airfix and Hornby both are household names to the general public - a "Hornby Airfix" range would certainly attract attention, though to sell to the general public a loco kit would probably be required.

That's true, but you could just advertise it as being compatible with the existing rtr-locos that they already sell.  Maybe include them as part of a trainset?  One of the problems with the modern trainset is the price.  If you want to improve value for money, perhaps include a few entry level kits?

That way you essentially get two ways of enjoying the train set rather than just one.  You get to build wagons and then see them run straight away.

When I first got into model railways, I wasn't aware of all the kits that you could buy and I don't think most people are either, they assume everything is kind of bought off a shelf.  This might help to broaden the horizons of people getting into train sets?

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31 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

Parkside did all right without loco kits!

Parkside wasn't trying to appeal to the general public.

 

21 minutes ago, MonsalDan said:

That's true, but you could just advertise it as being compatible with the existing rtr-locos that they already sell.

If they just did that they would be missing out on the demographic of people who don't have or want a model railway, but would like to have a kitbuilt model of Flying Scotsman they can show off on the mantelpiece.

Edited by eldomtom2
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28 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Parkside did all right without loco kits!

 

 

 

 

Different era though.

 

You see comments about people not even adding the extras provided in the box. Do we really expect those same people to start building kits?

 

If you really want kits you will find them.

 

 

Besides what ever happened to the NER Q6?

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2016/02/06/2016-british-toy-fair/

 

 

Jason

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1 minute ago, eldomtom2 said:

Parkside wasn't trying to appeal to the general public.

 

If they just did that they would be missing out on the demographic of people who don't have or want a model railway, but would like to have a kitbuilt model of Flying Scotsman they can show off on the mantelpiece.

They could test the market with the railroad mk1s.  They clip together, and if pre-coloured/decorated could be a very easy way in to the self assembly market. How much cheaper- that would be debatable. Locos (certainly high detail) would be a different matter. I've a new chassis for a masak rot 31. It's not difficult. But you need to keep your wits about you. It wouldn't be for the beginner.

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12 minutes ago, davidw said:

They could test the market with the railroad mk1s.  They clip together, and if pre-coloured/decorated could be a very easy way in to the self assembly market. How much cheaper- that would be debatable. Locos (certainly high detail) would be a different matter. I've a new chassis for a masak rot 31. It's not difficult. But you need to keep your wits about you. It wouldn't be for the beginner.

 

Dapol do that with the LMS coaches. They don't seem to have been much of a success.

 

You really are just saving pennies by buying them and I doubt the manufacturer is saving much either. Although a great time saver if you want to detail or modify them as you don't have to spend ages taking them to bits.

 

 

 

Jason

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From the Cambridge Dictionary...

Quote

the general public

noun

ordinary people, especially all the people who are not members of a particular organization or who do not have any special type of knowledge

In this context "the general public" means "non-railway modellers". Who is and isn't the general public depends on the specific perspective.

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1 hour ago, davidw said:

They could test the market with the railroad mk1s.  They clip together, and if pre-coloured/decorated could be a very easy way in to the self assembly market. How much cheaper- that would be debatable. Locos (certainly high detail) would be a different matter. I've a new chassis for a masak rot 31. It's not difficult. But you need to keep your wits about you. It wouldn't be for the beginner.

 

One of the key problems would be that a kit would be tooled up differently than a RTR model is.

 

When doing the tooling for a RTR model you want a whole bunch of the same parts all on one die / sprue, so that after the plastic is injected the factory worker can simply sit there and spend day(s) cutting off all the same parts and putting them in a bin - no need to be sorting (and making mistakes) at the same time.

 

For a kit you design things differently, so that everything fits onto as few sprues/dies as possible so that you just throw 1 or 2 sprues of parts into a box and call it a day - and you also put part numbers on the sprues so that the modeller can match the parts to the assembly instructions.

 

So you might possibly get away with it for something as relatively simple as the Railroad Mk1, but a lot of buyers of the kit would be put off receiving a box full of loose parts with no identifying numbers to match the instructions - and then there is the rather obvious hassle/danger of assembling boxing of kits by throwing individual parts into the boxes, and inefficient and error prone process.

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But Dapol already do coach kits which are the same as the RTR ones. That's what David is hinting at.

 

Everything is done for you apart from snapping a few pieces together and gluing a few ventilators to the roof. Apart from the vents there is no gluing or painting involved.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/26149/Dapol-c097b-oo-gauge-57ft-stanier-non-corridor-composite-coach-lms-maroon-lined-19195-kit?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkf_VzIrr5gIVmKztCh3auwHFEAYYASABEgIdHvD_BwE

 

There was a guide to building them on here somewhere. Possibly by Coachman.

 

 

Jason

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10 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Last time I looked I was part of the General Public!

All railway modellers are members of the general public, but not all members of the general public (even some who buy r-t-r trains) are railway modellers.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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11 hours ago, davidw said:

They could test the market with the railroad mk1s.  They clip together, and if pre-coloured/decorated could be a very easy way in to the self assembly market. How much cheaper- that would be debatable. Locos (certainly high detail) would be a different matter. I've a new chassis for a masak rot 31. It's not difficult. But you need to keep your wits about you. It wouldn't be for the beginner.

 

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Dapol do that with the LMS coaches. They don't seem to have been much of a success.

 

You really are just saving pennies by buying them and I doubt the manufacturer is saving much either. Although a great time saver if you want to detail or modify them as you don't have to spend ages taking them to bits.

 

 

 

Jason

I can't see anyone bothering these days unless the cash saving were substantial or they wanted the coach in bits to modify it.

 

Back when Tri-ang used to do it, the "kits" were only cheaper because they were exempt from the Purchase Tax that was levied on finished models. For those too young to remember PT, VAT is the nearest modern equivalent, and is carefully structured to preclude such wheezes.

 

The Dapol products are also something of a special case. The tooling paid for itself at least a generation ago and every penny they earn is a bonus. Bunging the, quite small number, of bits in a bag will be much quicker than assembling them and boxing a finished coach. If the cost differential in the factory is greater than the price differential in the shop, it's worth doing.  

 

They also have a niche of their own among the "hacking" fraternity; I've built several and have a couple more on the go at present, but I do much more than just clip them together and some end up bearing very little resemblance to the factory-built models!

 

John

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