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Hi guys,

 

I have a space of 15ft x 1ft (including hidden 2nd and 3rd radius bends at each end and excluding fiddle yards) for a model of hopefully a large-ish through station in the LMS region of BR in 00 gauge. I understand due to the lack of width this may be a challenge but hopefully the length can help compromise. At the right end of the station a double track main line exits under a road bridge while at the left end the double track main and a single track branch line exit similarly under a road bridge. I need help piecing the station plan together to simulate the main line and branch line workings.

 

Ideally the layout needs to incorporate:

  • At least 3 through and 2 bay platforms (through capable of taking 7 coach trains and bay capable of taking a top and tailed 3 coach train)
  • A couple of goods sidings (longest capable of taking up to 10 mineral wagons)
  • At least 1 carriage siding (longest capable of taking a full rake of coaches)
  • A small shed area with basic facilities without a turntable as there is no need to turn locomotives
  • The junction at left end resulting in a 1 track branch line firing off parallel to the main line

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Physically impossible, I'm afraid. Width is the issue. At the very least, fitting in just 3 through platform lines and 2 bay platforms requires 2ft in width, and that's with no scenics, buildings or anything.

In all honesty, you need to scale back your list of needs. Sorry.

Edited by Dragonfly
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In order to squeeze it into a small location without it looking too forced, you could use an urban settings with the line set below street level.

The drawbacks of this are that urban locations require a lot of buildings & there is usually little space for any goods, loco or carriage facilities.

 

Just looking at your list of 'wants':

5 platforms

2 goods sidings

carriage siding

shed siding

That's 9 tracks plus platforms.

I agree with Dragonfly; that simply won't fit into the space available.

 

Perhaps you could arrange your list with the most important things at the top, then drop items from the bottom 1 at a time until you are left with something possible?

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My station has two main platforms, one being an island with a loop, and a through goods line. Behind the single face platform is a retraining wall. That lot needs about 18 to 20 inches wide to be realistically spaced.

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One compromise method which will win you a little more wiggle room is not to have everything on view, and to cunningly select layouts that are space savers.

 

I would suggest the former 'London extension' of the GCR which became part of LMR under BR, offers such an opportunity; a typical station layout being an island platform, with the station offices on a road overbridge. Using this layout with only a few feet of the main line island platform protruding from under the road bridge on the left hand side, and a single face platform in foreground to serve the branch, then by swaying the main lines to the rear of the board a small loco facility and access to the carriage siding (out of view) might be accommodated between the mainlines and branch to the right. All very tight....

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1 hour ago, TheDoctor said:

Hi guys,

 

I have a space of 15ft x 1ft (including hidden 2nd and 3rd radius bends at each end and excluding fiddle yards) for a model of hopefully a large-ish through station in the LMS region of BR in 00 gauge. I understand due to the lack of width this may be a challenge but hopefully the length can help compromise. At the right end of the station a double track main line exits under a road bridge while at the left end the double track main and a single track branch line exit similarly under a road bridge. I need help piecing the station plan together to simulate the main line and branch line workings.

 

Ideally the layout needs to incorporate:

  • At least 3 through and 2 bay platforms (through capable of taking 7 coach trains and bay capable of taking a top and tailed 3 coach train)
  • A couple of goods sidings (longest capable of taking up to 10 mineral wagons)
  • At least 1 carriage siding (longest capable of taking a full rake of coaches)
  • A small shed area with basic facilities without a turntable as there is no need to turn locomotives
  • The junction at left end resulting in a 1 track branch line firing off parallel to the main line

Hi TheDoctor,

 

You've got quite a list there, I hope you don't mind me asking but whats the inspiration for going fairly big on the plans? To help on the LMS region of BR, I've dug out my copy of 'Rails Through Lakeland' by Harold D. Bowtell. The likes of Blencow station or Cockermouth could well tick some of your criteria.

 

Check this link out

http://disusedrailwaystations.blogspot.com/2017/07/

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

17A

 

Ross

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1 minute ago, 17A said:

Hi TheDoctor,

 

You've got quite a list there, I hope you don't mind me asking but whats the inspiration for going fairly big on the plans? To help on the LMS region of BR, I've dug out my copy of 'Rails Through Lakeland' by Harold D. Bowtell. The likes of Blencow station or Cockermouth could well tick some of your criteria.

 

Check this link out

http://disusedrailwaystations.blogspot.com/2017/07/

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

17A

 

Ross

Hi Ross,

 

The idea of going big is because I have most of the rest of the railway that it links in with planned to satisfaction. I probably should have mentioned that the plan is on the main line between London and Chester (terminus on my layout) and the branch is for west Wales like Pwllheli and Aberystwyth  so the station is in the Shrewsbury area. The reason for the large number of platforms is because I need an up and down main through lines, 2 bays to face the branch for terminating trains and a third through platform for slower locals to be passed. The reasons for shed and carriage facilities are due to the branch services mostly and the goods yard for local pick up goods trains to drop off at. Thanks very much for the link though I have looked at it in detail and found it thoroughly interesting. Funnily enough my last layout was a scale replica of Penrith station and Keswick branch junction so this was amazing to read and wish I had found it before I built Penrith.

 

Cheers,

TheDoctor

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37 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

In order to squeeze it into a small location without it looking too forced, you could use an urban settings with the line set below street level.

The drawbacks of this are that urban locations require a lot of buildings & there is usually little space for any goods, loco or carriage facilities.

 

Just looking at your list of 'wants':

5 platforms

2 goods sidings

carriage siding

shed siding

That's 9 tracks plus platforms.

I agree with Dragonfly; that simply won't fit into the space available.

 

Perhaps you could arrange your list with the most important things at the top, then drop items from the bottom 1 at a time until you are left with something possible?

Thanks very much Dragonfly and Pete you make valid points. I think the most important is 2 through platforms and 2 bays for the branch services. I was wondering if staggering the station and shed/goods/carriage area would mean that the station could be at one end of the 15ft and these services could be at the other. I will have to rethink if this is also not possible. I am not concerned with the scenics at the moment due to there being a backscene to go on the wall and non railway related buildings being low down in the priority list as I am going for a railway for operation rather than exact realistic look.

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If you have 15ft overall with hidden curves as part of that you will only have about 10ft between scenic breaks at each end. Seven bogie coaches and a loco will need platforms about 7ft long so not much room for anything off the ramp. The bay platform lines will be about 5ft long from the clearance point with through lines. 

Have you thought of modelling half a station with a road bridge carrying the mian station building on top?

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I hope this helps, but just been up to my railway room and measured a double main line and bay platform. Even without adding the platform this side, the measurement across the tracks and bay platform is 10". If you didn't have a platform on the far side, you may get away with a narrow platform face this side, bit it shows the limitations you will be up against.

 

DSCF9725.jpg.e9d4eed775cbab598c8886c0ddf49f2c.jpg

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How about trying the Man Vic Man Exchange thing where they joined up platforms 3 and 11 to get a single platform over 2000 feet in length but with points and such so that 3 trains could be accommodated at once?

 

Regards,

 

John P

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10 minutes ago, jpendle said:

How about trying the Man Vic Man Exchange thing where they joined up platforms 3 and 11 to get a single platform over 2000 feet in length but with points and such so that 3 trains could be accommodated at once?

 

Regards,

 

John P

I think that you would need most of the available length to get all of the points in.

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2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Doctor,

 

Hindley station comes to mind as it is four track main line and has relatively narrow platforms set into a cutting. Perhaps a variation of theme may work out.

 

Have a look at the map linked below:

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.5422&lon=-2.5754&layers=168&right=BingHyb

 

Gibbo.

Measuring on Google you would still be struggling there. It's over 90 feet from the front of the station building to the back fence on the far platform. It's  a good demonstration of how much space you really need.

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Would adapting "minories" as a through station. Be a starting point. It might help with the width constraints

All the best 

Steve

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57 minutes ago, stevejjjexcov said:

Would adapting "minories" as a through station. Be a starting point. It might help with the width constraints

All the best 

Steve

Freezer's 3 platform Minories sketch was 1' wide. 3 platforms and a siding was 1'3".

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I don't think even staggering would fit with your needs.

 

 I'm building a branch line through station in an area about 15 feet long x 17 inches wide - I.e. almost 50% wider than yours. The station, at one end, can accommodate 3-4 coach trains on double track (actually a long passing loop) while the goods platform at the other end has 2 tracks, one each side of an island platform.

 

I can't see how you would fit more into that space to approach your requirements without shrinking it all down to n gauge.

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Looking at 15' x 1' using Peco 00 Set Track geometry and 2nd radius inner curve as an example plus a requirement to platform a 7-coach train this is about what you can fit in 

 

15x1.JPG.635326a3397f173e93ff320a5975fb63.JPG

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The site is as said above too tight for your requirements.  However you have a fiddle yard so why do you need more than 2 main line platforms and a departure bay?   Cheltenham Lansdown ex Midland on the Birmingham Bristol line had just 2 platforms and a bay platform, most long distance trains stopped there and Cheltenham to Southampton trains started there.  The double  track emerges and the platforms commence from under a bridge on a sharp curve beyond which were a turntable and carriage sidings and the other end the branch diverged just beyond another road bridge.  No reason the branch couldn't merge closer to the station.   The shunting horse might be a bit of a challenge.  Lansdown had LMS stock on the main line and GW locos and stock on the branch, the bay held about 3 coaches and a tender engine, Bulldog/43XX and in BR days Southern stock. Lot of variety and lots of moves on a simple track plan, and a massive bottleneck on the Bristol line.  See doodle for possible modellers licence version.

When modellers have lots of platforms they usually clog up with lots of stationary trains or allow goods trains to overtake passengers, and lets face it that was a very very rare occurrence. 

The 2nd radius curves are a bit marginal for some modern RTR, the Bachmann 64XX struggles and I suspect the LMS 0-6-0 chassis is similar as it has an even longer wheelbase.

Getting track centres down to the minimum on the straight track through the platforms will pay dividends 44 or even 42mm would save some precious mm over the standard Streamline 50 /52mm and the set track 60mm plus

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For that lot, perhaps a change to N gauge is a better choice!

You think that 15ft is 'big space', it is far from it.

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1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

You think that 15ft is 'big space', it is far from it.

My 00 layout goes round a small room. Straightened out the scenic part would need a board 20ft long by 2ft wide.

It doesn't have as much track as as you want to do but I still worry it is a bit crowded. 

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Perhaps the OP would like to share his ambitious overall plan to show how the through station and the terminus mentioned in the other thread fit into the bigger picture?

 

Edited by Harlequin
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1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Perhaps the OP would like to share his ambitious overall plan to show how the through station and the terminus mentioned in the other thread fit into the bigger picture?

 

Maybe TheDoctor has a TARDIS that is bigger on the inside than outside?

 

:)

 

Sorry to a new poster, I couldn't resist it!

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19 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Maybe TheDoctor has a TARDIS that is bigger on the inside than outside?

 

Don't all our layouts go through that stage? :D

 

If Martin is reading this thread, may I suggest that the next version of Templot includes a couple of new pop-up warnings.

 

"Are you sure your room is that big?"

 

"Does SWMBO know what you're planning?" 

 

:)

 

 

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Re reading the thread I reckon T gauge is the answer.    00 requires around 24", our junction station has four through platforms a bay, and four through lines in 30". X about 18 feet,   7 coach platforms 3 coach just bay. If I did it again I would leave out the through lines  between platforms add a second bay and make the goods use the lines around the back of the platforms instead of overtaking the expresses stopped in the platforms, because the station ends up like a visible storage yard stuffed with trains.    I would keep the track plan simple and make the operation complicated, hence my Cheltenham suggestion.  On the full size the Left to right terminating passengers, stoped and went offstage right.  They reappear right to left on the other road, the engine having run round and either started at the main platform or back into the bay to  await the main line connection and keep out of the way of goods.  Quiet moments were few.  The Bay has now gone but Paddington trains replaced the Southampton ones and some still turn back there. 

Had you considered knocking through to the kitchen for more space?    Deliveroo can deliver tasteless fattening  meals so you don't really need all the  kitchen gubbins like cookers and Freezers these days.   Just a thought.

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