Chandlers Row - 50s streetlife

[Guest Jack Benson]

This started as a SMS 'Layout in a Christmas Tree box'* blanket box but slowly morphed into a larger concept based on a street in the Chapel area of Southampton and its Chapel Tramway,  at the same time Chris Nevard said it was OK to plagarise his Brew Street design for my Chandlers Row project and we were in business.

 

Chandlers Row, is based on the Chapel Tramway and Dibles in the St.Mary's area In Southampton, right next to Southampton FC's stadium near the Itchen docksides. The most iconic image of the tramway crossing Britannia Road is beyond my grasp but some of the street running near Belvidere Road look interesting. The Chapel Tramway went bust in 1967 and it served warehouses, light industries and wharves. The system even had a locomotive repair works which maintained the Peckett 'George Jennings' from Parkstone, so lots of local connections.

 

more info> Click here for the fun stuff

 

 

*it became a Tim Horn display

 

It will be fun

 

JB

Edited December 12, 2019 by Guest
Reality

[jbmccarthy]

I'll be following this with interest. I will be purchasing an SMS baseboard while attending Warley next weekend. Love the idea of a layout that fits within a safe plastic box.

[Bo-Bo]

Jack this sounds like a great layout to build. I like how the Peckett is crossing Britannia Road, will be watching very closely.

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

The scene at Britannia Road is a bit of a stretch BUT there were some very quiet bits of Chapel Tramway with neat terraced brick houses, a corner pub and fruit/veg warehouse that are perfect for an urban scene.

 

At the end of the day, the concept is to watch a Peckett shuffling about with a brace of banana vans surrounded by bits of early 50s Southampton - a bomb site garden turned into a communal vegetable allotment complete with an Emergency Water Supply (remember Passport to Pimlico?) 

 

 

 

JB

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Jack Benson
Boredom

[Guest Jack Benson]

A bit more waffle whilst waiting for the baseboard to arrive (the Really Useful plastic storage box pitched up within 24hrs!)

 

Yesterday, we  drove around St.Mary's, not a great idea on a Saturday but it was good to see the old district again. Gentrification seems to have bypassed the area in favour of industry but it always was a hinterland of the wharves and whatever the blitz had not destroyed, Southampton City planners have tried to obliterate.

 

> Click here for some ideas

 

Delving back into the early 50s has not been too easy, thankfully Dave Marden has come to the rescue. This is a scan of my copy of his book and it is a cracking read.

 

Plus

 

Railway Bylines:

The Chapel Tramway:1 - Vol 18.11 Oct 2013, 505

The Chapel Tramway:2 - Vol 18.12 November 2013, 590

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JB

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Jack Benson

[Guest Jack Benson]

I am not sure how relevant the 'community' has to the supposed location of a layout. With Child Okeford, I am trying to instill the look of the Dorset Stour Valley but Chandlers Row is quite different. The timeframe is important, rationing was still in force until 1954, the local community allotments were my parents source of vegetables and Dad kept rabbits for the pot.

 

It is a very tiny corner of the Chapel area of Southampton during the early 50s, I cannot claim to have known the place at that time but I am trying to leave a few traces of my early years in South London whilst the LLC was still clearing the bombsites and I still remember being told to take shelter whilst the ROC defused yet another UXB a couple of streets away.

 

Although on tiny layout , these iconic signs/images will really 'speak' to a generation.

 

Link to the past

 

 

 

Unlike a wartime scene, the intent is to show the peacetime recovery and the relevance to the community of 'their' railways

 

JB

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Jack Benson

[Marly51]

On 17/11/2019 at 13:10, Jack Benson said:

A bit more waffle whilst waiting for the baseboard to arrive (the Really Useful plastic storage box pitched up within 24hrs!)

 

Yesterday, we  drove around St.Mary's, not a great idea on a Saturday but it was good to see the old district again. Gentrification seems to have bypassed the area in favour of industry but it always was a hinterland of the wharves and whatever the blitz had not destroyed, Southampton City planners have tried to obliterate.

 

> Click here for some ideas

 

Delving back into the early 50s has not been too easy, thankfully Dave Marden has come to the rescue. This is a scan of my copy of his book and it is a cracking read.

 

Plus

 

Railway Bylines:

The Chapel Tramway:1 - Vol 18.11 Oct 2013, 505

The Chapel Tramway:2 - Vol 18.12 November 2013, 590

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, a couple of banana vans, once synonymous with Southampton.

 

JB

 

 

 

The detail in these  laser kits is great! Although I enjoy scratchbuilding with paper and card, I am tempted to get some for a future model!

 

Marlyn

[Jeff P]

On 17/11/2019 at 08:10, Jack Benson said:

A bit more waffle whilst waiting for the baseboard to arrive (the Really Useful plastic storage box pitched up within 24hrs!)

 

Yesterday, we  drove around St.Mary's, not a great idea on a Saturday but it was good to see the old district again. Gentrification seems to have bypassed the area in favour of industry but it always was a hinterland of the wharves and whatever the blitz had not destroyed, Southampton City planners have tried to obliterate.

 

> Click here for some ideas

 

Delving back into the early 50s has not been too easy, thankfully Dave Marden has come to the rescue. This is a scan of my copy of his book and it is a cracking read.

 

Plus

 

Railway Bylines:

The Chapel Tramway:1 - Vol 18.11 Oct 2013, 505

The Chapel Tramway:2 - Vol 18.12 November 2013, 590

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, a couple of banana vans, once synonymous with Southampton.

 

JB

 

 

 

Those buildings are wonderful...they'll look great when finished. 

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

 

Both the baseboards and building kits have arrived, the baseboards are excellent but their tiny size emphasise the need for careful planning for both track and surrounding buildings.

 

The lack of clearance under the trackbed requires smaller turnout motors - SEEP PM4 with built-in latching and polarity switch seem to be OK but in keeping with the lightweight concept, a modern wall mounted WM1 transformer will be the power source for both turnouts and  loco controller (Gaugemaster W) 

 

Rather than integral lights, an old fashioned desk lamp at each end of the layout will look typically 50s except they will be LED and in keeping with the period.

 

 

JB

[Guest Jack Benson]

A totally oversized loco for Chandlers Row but couldn't find a Dapol B4 and it will also find employment on the PW Depot micro.

 

 

With a little help from my friends

 

JB

 

 

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

 

All this effort has come full circle when the baseboards for the SMS christmas tree box layout were completed - a quiet moment of 'quart into half-pint pot' but no matter, the 1200x475 mm baseboard. The little SMS boards (see below) will simply morph into the original PW Depot and a Hornby Ruston will shift the wagons around, by the same token, the larger board will eventually become Chandlers Row with a Peckett to keep everyone happy.

 

 

And this definitely fits in the back of the car and there is plenty of room for detailing.

 

JB

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Jack Benson

[Guest Jack Benson]

My apologies, eye to hand coordination has deteriorated since the health issues to the point of serious concern and the rubbish trackplan is just such an example.

However, this is my interpretation of a loop and siding and expanded to 1200x457mmm , the turnouts have been changed for small radii and a couple of new buildings added. 

The 'ruined house' is a reminder that not all bombed buildings had been cleared in the 50s, in fact Chapel was not finally 'sanitised' by Southampton City Council until the early 60s, when all the terraced houses and other icons of the community were bulldozed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An aerial photo of Chapel and St Mary's taken from the south. The line, Bull's Run, can be seen curving off the old Southampton Terminus line as it curves around the huge gasometer. Other long demolished sites are the St.Mary's gas works, there is an aerial coal feed from the wharf, across Marine Parade and into the retort house.

 

Southampton FC's St. Marys stadium has yet to built, they were still playing at The Dell and the terraced housing that characterised Chapel is still to be bulldozed. 

 

And yet, there are still tantalising bits of old Chapel and its tramway to be found if you visit the area.

 

Btw This will definitely not fit in a Christmas Tree box.

 

JB

Edited December 23, 2019 by Jack Benson
Rubbish trackplan

[tom q vaxy]

I really like the idea of the allotment of days gone bye. softens the whole industrial feel.

[Guest Jack Benson]

The first terraced houses and shop are coming along nicely, the kits are from Dave G at 'In the green wood'. In addition, there is a two story low relief warehouse and a rather top quality Railway Tavern by Bachmann Scenecraft, these form the backscene.

 

 

This image from Chapel during the Second World War, is our inspiration. By the mid 60s, all was demolished.

 

 

There was once a Railway Tavern on the corner of Albert and Elm Streets in Chapel, hit during the 40-41 raids, it was demolished as unsafe but its name will liveth forever on Chandlers Row.

 

 

Cheers

 

JB

 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jack Benson

[Guest Jack Benson]

Early 50's Streetlife

 

The buildings for the backscene are coming along - they are available from inthegreenwoodlaser  and run by a really nice guy. 

 

Chimneys and drainage will be 3mm Evergreen tube, just copped the last packet at the DigiHangar this morning.

 

 

And the 'banana' warehouse

 

 

In contrast to the houses/shop, the warehouse was a full depth building kit but it was modified for us by the manufacture - it is lovely. Just the right appearance for the early 20th century.

 

Trying for that elusive 'look' of urban Southern England - as typified by 'This Happy Breed'.

 

 

JB

Edited December 12, 2019 by Jack Benson

[tom q vaxy]

these building are coming along beautifully. 

 

I had never heard of the story/ film, but luckily it's available to watch free:  

 

 

following along!

[petethemole]

I'm following this with interest.  Before retirement I did a lot of research into the area for heritage assessments.  I don't have access to some of the sources any more and what was an excellent online image resource (Portcities Southampton) has been taken down. I do however have some of the images from it (mostly of terraced housing) if you're interested, plus some relevant books.  The Railway Tavern was actually three storeys but that would probably be too big for your purposes.  Your picture of the 'Jubilee' after closure is a different building, which I think was the former Belvidere Hotel.  In 1971-73 I was excavating on Melbourne Street. One end of the site was the trackbed of the Chapel Tramway.

[Guest Jack Benson]

Tom,

 

The film is not entirely in 'context' for Chandlers Row, the film was mostly set in the interwar period some fifteen-odd years before Chandlers Row and the locations are different, Clapham as opposed to Chapel but the 'attitudes' of make and do mend during peacetime are still the same. Poverty and poor housing  in Chapel was and still is omnipresent hence the decision of Southampton City Council to raze whatever was left after 39-45. The street running railways,  most of the terraced housing, corner pubs and older warehouses for shipping have long gone.

 

BTW, still trying to find a tenant for the warehouse - British West Indies Fruit Company seems a bit overblown.

 

 

 And yes, that is a genuine Hornby Dublo SD6 with Red Panda.

 

Cheers

 

JB

Edited December 13, 2019 by Jack Benson

[Nearholmer]

This is really interesting!

 

I’ve got into the same period, roughly 1945-55 on my own coarse-scale railway, and the whole social history of it is fascinating. Rambling discussion of it my thread.

 

Looking forward to seeing it come to fruition (banana-ion?).

[Guest Jack Benson]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

This is really interesting!

 

I’ve got into the same period, roughly 1945-55 on my own coarse-scale railway, and the whole social history of it is fascinating. Rambling discussion of it my thread.

 

Looking forward to seeing it come to fruition (banana-ion?).

 

To quote the great Iain Rice 'model railways are pointless' but it doesn't stop us creating a plausible backstory, preferably based on fact, that can both entertain and inform.

 

BTW,I am not quite sure if the 'point' of creating Chandlers Row was merely to find gainful employment from my remaining Hornby Dublo, albeit given a new lease of life, I will also admit to owning a Fruit B.

 

Cheers

 

JP

[Nearholmer]

The way I’ve stumbled into the period is by owning old three rail trains (Bassett Lowke 0 gauge in my case) made then, so there is definitely a parallel, although a big difference between your finescale portrait, and my coarse scale rough sketch.

[Guest Jack Benson]

52 minutes ago, petethemole said:

I'm following this with interest.  Before retirement I did a lot of research into the area for heritage assessments.  I don't have access to some of the sources any more and what was an excellent online image resource (Portcities Southampton) has been taken down. I do however have some of the images from it (mostly of terraced housing) if you're interested, plus some relevant books.  The Railway Tavern was actually three storeys but that would probably be too big for your purposes.  Your picture of the 'Jubilee' after closure is a different building, which I think was the former Belvidere Hotel.  In 1971-73 I was excavating on Melbourne Street. One end of the site was the trackbed of the Chapel Tramway.

 

Pete,

Which picture of the Jubilee is incorrect (I suspect the later image)

 

OK, here is the 'real' Railway Tavern, lost forever.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

JB

 

 

[petethemole]

Yes, the later image of the Jubilee is wrong. I can't read the street name sign but its layout suggests Belvidere Terrace, which makes it the Belvidere Hotel, closed 1976.

[JSModels]

On 12/12/2019 at 15:19, Jack Benson said:

Early 50's Streetlife

 

The buildings for the backscene are coming along - they are available from inthegreenwoodlaser  and run by a really nice guy. 

 

Chimneys and drainage will be 3mm Evergreen tube, just copped the last packet at the DigiHangar this morning.

 

 

Jack,

 

The buildings are indeed coming along, they're looking very good.

 

3mm tube would be spot-on the for the chimneys, working out at 9" diameter, but it's definitely overscale for drainpipes. Most drainpipes are around 4" to 4.5" diameter, which is 1.3mm to 1.5mm in 4mm scale. Even soil pipes, which are slightly larger, were never more than 6" for domestic stuff, but usually around 5" . I'd recommend 1.8 to 2mm diameter for those.

 

Not meant as a criticism, just that I think 3mm will look odd as drainpipes, that's all.

 

JRB

[Guest Jack Benson]

On 14/12/2019 at 12:51, jrb said:

Jack,

 

The buildings are indeed coming along, they're looking very good.

 

3mm tube would be spot-on the for the chimneys, working out at 9" diameter, but it's definitely overscale for drainpipes. Most drainpipes are around 4" to 4.5" diameter, which is 1.3mm to 1.5mm in 4mm scale. Even soil pipes, which are slightly larger, were never more than 6" for domestic stuff, but usually around 5" . I'd recommend 1.8 to 2mm diameter for those.

 

Not meant as a criticism, just that I think 3mm will look odd as drainpipes, that's all.

 

JRB

Depends on the type of drainage under consideration, we use Wills SS46 building details for rainwater collection but not their rather emaciated chimneys. The 'other' drainage would be foul sewers which were under repair after being exposed during the previous few year's contretemps.

 

Thank you

 

JB

Edited December 15, 2019 by Jack Benson