Baglan bay chemical trains

[Richard_A]

Can anyone shed some light on the types of wagons that would have been used on the various trains to baglan bay please? 

 

I'm primarily interested in the early 70's but any information would be great.

[Fat Controller]

Four-wheel hoppers (later PGA) conveying salt from Cheshire. See :- 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpchemicalpga

4-wheel tanks conveying acetic acid from Hull:-

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/aceticethanoltank

There were also bogie tanks, which may have been these:-

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/stsvinylchloride

[Richard_A]

Thank you, I looked on his site but typed in baglan bay instead of Briton ferry. 

 

Would the workings call via the yard at court sart junction then get shunted into the working

[Richard_A]

Also are the Lima/Hornby PGA wagons the same type as the salt ones? To my eyes they look different.

[Fat Controller]

19 minutes ago, rka said:

Also are the Lima/Hornby PGA wagons the same type as the salt ones? To my eyes they look different.

Briton Ferry yard acted as a reception and departure sidings for BP traffic amongst others (Briton Ferry Steel, T W Ward's Shipbreakers amongst them). Trains arrived and departed from the east, but access to the plant was from the west. Court Sart Junction was at the western end of Briton Ferry Yard; there'd be no reason for any train to go that far.

The salt hoppers were noticeably longer than the PGAs used for aggregate, both overall, and in wheelbase. They tended to be sheeted both loaded and empty, with a bright blue plastic wagon-sheet. There were hooks on the upper part of both sides and ends to attach these to. Another distinguishing feature was the use of leaf, not coil, springs in the suspension.

[Richard_A]

35 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Briton Ferry yard acted as a reception and departure sidings for BP traffic amongst others (Briton Ferry Steel, T W Ward's Shipbreakers amongst them). Trains arrived and departed from the east, but access to the plant was from the west. Court Sart Junction was at the western end of Briton Ferry Yard; there'd be no reason for any train to go that far.

The salt hoppers were noticeably longer than the PGAs used for aggregate, both overall, and in wheelbase. They tended to be sheeted both loaded and empty, with a bright blue plastic wagon-sheet. There were hooks on the upper part of both sides and ends to attach these to. Another distinguishing feature was the use of leaf, not coil, springs in the suspension.

Thank you, 

 

The railways around Swansea, Neath and Port Talbot are very interesting and confusing, especially to an incomer like me. 

 

There's so much potential for a model of the area it's just knowing what to look for. I'm also amazed there aren't many books on the area.

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, rka said:

Thank you, 

 

The railways around Swansea, Neath and Port Talbot are very interesting and confusing, especially to an incomer like me. 

 

There's so much potential for a model of the area it's just knowing what to look for. I'm also amazed there aren't many books on the area.

There's still quite a bit left, but you should have seen it when I was a small child. Street-running around the North Dock; high level running down from the eastern side of Swansea (High St) to join up with the dock system and the former L&NWR; endless rows of coal wagons bound for Swansea Docks, alongside Shocvans loaded with tinplate.

I was born in Swansea, but brought up in Llanelli; I was lucky in that dad took me around various work-sites with him, so I got to see a lot of the industrial networks that had survived into the 1960s.

Some books worth looking out for are:-

'The Red Dragon and other old friends';  almost entirely centred around Swansea. Loads of excellent photos with informative captions, taken from the 1940s onwards.

The various John Hodge books on the South Wales Mainline

Any R.A. Cooke track diagram books you can find; these are fascinating in seeing the evolution of yards and stations.

[Richard_A]

I have the red dragon book, along with the book on the Swansea vale line and I'm on the hunt for the r a Cooke books.

[Fat Controller]

15 minutes ago, rka said:

I have the red dragon book, along with the book on the Swansea vale line and I'm on the hunt for the r a Cooke books.

The Cooke books are published by Lightmoor Press:-  http://lightmoor.co.uk/

 

[The Johnster]

The salt hoppers in the 70s were fundamentally the same as MGR hoppers with bars over the top to support nylon covers, which I remember as being green, not the same as the hoppers in the Paul Bartlett.  I worked these trains between Canton and Hereford 1971-5,  and occasionally worked the vinegar tanks downline to Briton Ferry.  We had a class 8 job that ran over the Vale of Glamorgan line and dropped wagons at Margam Reception before terminating at Briton Ferry, mostly Ward's traffic IIRC.  

 

One afternoon having taken a train of empty liquid oxy tanks down to pick up the loaded, we had a ride on the pilot down to the Baglan Bay site, where their loco took over.  We were invited to a ceremony taking place to inaugurate a new wast burn-off chimney that was taller than the old one and all-singling all-dancing less polluting to boot.  As railwaymen rarely pass up the chance of free beer and a sandwich, we went, off we went. 

 

The Mayor of Neath Port Talbot had been brought in to do the honours, on a little platform in stripy covering and lots of bunting.  There was a brass band, and the His Worship's job was to press a button which would fire up the chimney, and everybody would cheer, and a good time would be had by all.  The Chief Engineer had put a suit on to oversee the action, and the General Manager was present also, all in brand new shiny hard hats.

 

The band stopped playing, the speeches were made, we drank the beer and ate the sandwiches, and His Worshipfulnessity stepped meaningfully on to the podium leading to the Holy Button Of Progress.  Everybody held their breath as He Approached It.  He paused for effect, then PRESSED THE HOLY BUTTON OF PROGRESS!!!

 

Nothing happened. 

 

He pressed it again, but the drama had been wasted, and the Chief Engineer stepped up to show him how to do it properly; the Mayor's resentment was palpable and we all hoped for a bit of comedy pushing and shoving.  But what happened next was much better; the Mayor pushed the button for the third time and the top half of the shining aluminium chimney disintegrated in a sheet of flame and an almighty bang...

 

Fortunately we were all about half a mile away and the debris, such as did not go into orbit of it anyway, mostly scattered in the other direction over the marshes.  We all sort of hid our mouths in case anyone saw how much we were laughing, got back on the works diesel, picked up the loaded tanks and headed back to the exchange sidings.

 

Back to the hoppers; the nylon sheets were held on by carabiner clips which occasionally got themselves undone.  You would be alerted to this by white clouds of powdered Sodium Chloride trailing from the train and would go inside at the next available loop to rectify matters.  It was horrible stuff if you breathed any in or got any in your eyes.

 

Locos on the Baglan Bay trains were 47s as a rule; our class 8 was Hymek hauled until 37s took over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard_A]

Thank you,

 

vinegar trains?  I assume they were a type of tank wagon?

[Enterprisingwestern]

36 minutes ago, rka said:

Thank you,

 

vinegar trains?  I assume they were a type of tank wagon?

 

Mineral wagons actually, quite a lot of wastage around the doors, but the stations en route had fabulous fish and chips.

 

Mike.

[Andy Hayter]

Vinegar = acetic acid but the latter is more concentrated.

[Richard_A]

34 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Mineral wagons actually, quite a lot of wastage around the doors, but the stations en route had fabulous fish and chips.

 

Mike.

of course how silly of me 

[The Stationmaster]

There was a regular flow of VCM (vinyl chloride monomer) tank cars between Barry and Baglan Bay in the early 1970s.  Not a popular train with the traincrews in view of all the rumours about the medical kit which had to be carried because VCM is extremely nasty stuff.

[Richard_A]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

There was a regular flow of VCM (vinyl chloride monomer) tank cars between Barry and Baglan Bay in the early 1970s.  Not a popular train with the traincrews in view of all the rumours about the medical kit which had to be carried because VCM is extremely nasty stuff.

 

Thank you

[The Johnster]

On 14/11/2019 at 19:33, Andy Hayter said:

Vinegar = acetic acid but the latter is more concentrated.

Exactly, and the tanks smelled strongly of vinegar.  

[hmrspaul]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

There was a regular flow of VCM (vinyl chloride monomer) tank cars between Barry and Baglan Bay in the early 1970s.  Not a popular train with the traincrews in view of all the rumours about the medical kit which had to be carried because VCM is extremely nasty stuff.

These were the wagons

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/stsvinylchloride

 

Paul

[br2975]

In 1977 Briton Ferry / Baglan Bay was served by the following 'Company - Block - Trains' run on behalf of BP Chemicals.

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N.B. some are shown as originating/terminating at Briton Ferry, others Baglan Bay.

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There was a Margam '08' outstationed at Briton Ferry in 1973, which tripped to Metal Box at Neath, T.W.Ward at their Giant's Grave scrapyard and which shunted Neath at night.

I believe the duty was still active in 1977, and this 'pilot' may  have tripped some workings from Briton Ferry to Baglan Bay and back ?

.

6V75 19:20 FSX Oakleigh - Briton Ferry (empty railcars)

6M42 01:55 MO Baglan Bay - Oakleigh (loaded-caustic soda)

6M42 02:35 TuWThO Briton Fery - Oakleigh (loaded-caustic soda)

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6V14 09:03 MThO Hull, Saltend - Baglan Bay (acetic acid)

6E83 19:55 MThO Baglan Bay - Hull, Saltend (Ethanol IPA. 46tonne tanks loaded to 38tonnes glw)

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6V78 17:40 MThSO & Sun Runcorn - Briton Ferry (loaded 51tonne salt hoppers)

6M46 20:45 SO & Sun Baglan Bay - Runcorn / Middlewich (empty 51 tonne salt hoppers)

Diagrammed via the SWML or VoG, as necessary

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6E39 10:35 MO Briton Ferry - West Thurock (loaded, caustic soda)

Balancing working unknown.

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6B01 02:50 MO Baglan Bay - Bridgewater (loaded, caustic soda)

6C01 08:30 ThO Bridgewater - Baglan Bay (empty, caustic soda)

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6C10 04:40 ThO Briton Ferry - Barry Docks (loaded, caustic soda)

6C26 17:45 ThO Barry Docks - Briton Ferry (empty, caustic soda)

Diagrammed via the Vale of Glamorgan line. VoG.

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6O69 07:05 TuSX Briton Fery - Barry Docks (loaded,styrene monomer)

7C47 16:55 SX Barry Docks - Briton Ferry (empty, styrene monomer)

This service was diagrammed via the SWML

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6C48 05:45 MO Baglan Bay - Barry Docks (loaded, vinyl cholride monomer)

6C48 06:25 MSX Briton Ferry - Barry Docks (loaded, vinyl cholride monomer)

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The following service, was a 'Company-Block-Train' operated on behalf of Shell Chemicals;

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6M35 23:20 MThO Briton Ferry - Partington Jcn. (91 tonne railcars, loaded to 79tonnes glw)

6V28 19:28 TuFO Partington Jcn. - Briton Ferry (empty railcars)

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Hope this helps ?

.

Brian R

Edited November 26, 2019 by br2975

[Richard_A]

Hi Brian,

 

Yes that helps, thank you.

 

Regards Richard

[The Johnster]

I can confirm that the Briton Ferry pilot tripped into Baglan Bay chemical plant.  Their own loco was a centre cab diesel, Sentinel IIRC. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by The Johnster