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Busy present day single track mainline


TravisM
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2 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Simple answer, modelling something that does not exist is called 'freelance' so just get on with it and think up a backstory.

Regards

That would be a way to go, but I'd be interested to know why Jools' Merkan chum wants a single track.  If it is because of space restrictions then perhaps we can between us come up with alternative suggestions, but a busy main line needs a lot of fiddle yard (I believe the Merkans call it staging) space for the variety of trains, and main line freights are often long to efficiently exploit the capacity of the loco and save paths.

 

The stock seems to be based on Northern prototypes and Ribblehead is the only one mentioned so far that ticks the all boxes.  This would be fine, nay, spectacular, as a 'watching the trains go by' layout, but won't cut the mustard if Merkan chum wants operation in way of shunting or trains held waiting for the road.  But a common situation Stateside is a very large basement layout utilising the entire footprint area of the property, sometimes several scale miles of route, which is fundamentally a single track main line between locations where there are passing loops, sidings, loco yards, and so on, built on floor to ceiling mountain scenery.  This is representative of real US railroad practice in mountainous areas especially the Rockies, where single track sections with lots of trestles and scene dividing tunnels are needed because of the geography and long heavy freights needed to save paths.  Loco types and liveries can vary and operating such layouts is interesting and realistic.  Perhaps Merkan chum wants to do this in a British context.

 

There is really no UK parallel to this that I can think of at the moment; those mountain areas which have that sort of precipitous terrain do not have major centres of population on the other sides of them and thus do not feature the sort of single track main line that carries heavy traffic (Sherman Hill, Caliente, Kicking Horse).

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2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

That would be a way to go, but I'd be interested to know why Jools' Merkan chum wants a single track.  If it is because of space restrictions then perhaps we can between us come up with alternative suggestions, but a busy main line needs a lot of fiddle yard (I believe the Merkans call it staging) space for the variety of trains, and main line freights are often long to efficiently exploit the capacity of the loco and save paths.

 

The stock seems to be based on Northern prototypes and Ribblehead is the only one mentioned so far that ticks the all boxes.  This would be fine, nay, spectacular, as a 'watching the trains go by' layout, but won't cut the mustard if Merkan chum wants operation in way of shunting or trains held waiting for the road.  But a common situation Stateside is a very large basement layout utilising the entire footprint area of the property, sometimes several scale miles of route, which is fundamentally a single track main line between locations where there are passing loops, sidings, loco yards, and so on, built on floor to ceiling mountain scenery.  This is representative of real US railroad practice in mountainous areas especially the Rockies, where single track sections with lots of trestles and scene dividing tunnels are needed because of the geography and long heavy freights needed to save paths.  Loco types and liveries can vary and operating such layouts is interesting and realistic.  Perhaps Merkan chum wants to do this in a British context.

 

There is really no UK parallel to this that I can think of at the moment; those mountain areas which have that sort of precipitous terrain do not have major centres of population on the other sides of them and thus do not feature the sort of single track main line that carries heavy traffic (Sherman Hill, Caliente, Kicking Horse).

Just past Ribblehead is Blea Moor sidings which are refuge sidings which add some operational potential.

 

Granted it isn't yard shunting but he can put goods trains into the refuge while passengers go past.

 

Of he really wanted he could use WCML diversions as an excuse to run express passenger trains. This would include electric units being dragged by a diesel (class 67 or 57 usually I believe).

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7 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yup, but no freight AFAIK.

P

Only diverted workings when the GWR main line is closed and then only overnight which is the only time there is spare capacity for them.  Not much comes up from Exeter these days but there are a few aggregate and clay workings.

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4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

This is representative of real US railroad practice ....  Loco types and liveries can vary and operating such layouts is interesting and realistic.  Perhaps Merkan chum wants to do this in a British context

Without the condescending "Merkan" word (took me a while to work out what it was!!), that was pretty much my thought on the request - trying to use American (& Canadian!! ;) ) railroad operating practice on a British-outline layout. Just doesn't work like that over here - our distances are too short, for one thing, to have a "busy" single track main line of any significance.

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4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

That would be a way to go, but I'd be interested to know why Jools' Merkan chum wants a single track.  If it is because of space restrictions then perhaps we can between us come up with alternative suggestions, but a busy main line needs a lot of fiddle yard (I believe the Merkans call it staging) space for the variety of trains, and main line freights are often long to efficiently exploit the capacity of the loco and save paths.

 

The stock seems to be based on Northern prototypes and Ribblehead is the only one mentioned so far that ticks the all boxes.  This would be fine, nay, spectacular, as a 'watching the trains go by' layout, but won't cut the mustard if Merkan chum wants operation in way of shunting or trains held waiting for the road.  But a common situation Stateside is a very large basement layout utilising the entire footprint area of the property, sometimes several scale miles of route, which is fundamentally a single track main line between locations where there are passing loops, sidings, loco yards, and so on, built on floor to ceiling mountain scenery.  This is representative of real US railroad practice in mountainous areas especially the Rockies, where single track sections with lots of trestles and scene dividing tunnels are needed because of the geography and long heavy freights needed to save paths.  Loco types and liveries can vary and operating such layouts is interesting and realistic.  Perhaps Merkan chum wants to do this in a British context.

 

There is really no UK parallel to this that I can think of at the moment; those mountain areas which have that sort of precipitous terrain do not have major centres of population on the other sides of them and thus do not feature the sort of single track main line that carries heavy traffic (Sherman Hill, Caliente, Kicking Horse).

 

My friend lives in a modest apartment and his spare room has a size of approximately 9x7.  He’s not much into shunting but likes the operational challenges of time tabling trains passing each other including a Intermodal train that’s slightly longer than the passing loop lol.

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15 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

 

My friend lives in a modest apartment and his spare room has a size of approximately 9x7.  He’s not much into shunting but likes the operational challenges of time tabling trains passing each other including a Intermodal train that’s slightly longer than the passing loop lol.

 

Is that 9x7 feet? You could definitely get a twin track roundy in that space

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To meet the requirements of the original brief:

 

Why not assume that the line between Lincoln and Doncaster was reduced to single track, something that was likely considered in the past. Perhaps somewhere around Saxilby area. You could have the Northern service, plus if you move some junctions around Lincoln, run some East Midlands Trains. The route is used by freight, including intermodals avoiding the East Coast Main Line.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

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On 16/11/2019 at 23:48, jools1959 said:

I hope you guys can help but I’ve had a request from a friend in the US who wants to build a mainline which was singled in the past but now becoming busy not only with passenger traffic but Intermodal as well as infrastructure trains. .... He also wants to base it in the Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire areas

 

Howabout something somewhere on the Great Central Railway?

 

GCRmap1903.JPG

 

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5 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Howabout something somewhere on the Great Central Railway?

 

GCRmap1903.JPG

 

 

I'd be cautious of using that map as showing exact routes. For example the Bradford bit doesn't actually stack up 100% as you can't access Skipton and Ilkley from Leeds by going through the centre of Bradford by train.

 

This was also a Midland route with some access by the NER. I may be incorrect but I've certainly never heard of the GC on Skipton or Ilkley.

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25 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

I'd be cautious of using that map as showing exact routes. For example the Bradford bit doesn't actually stack up 100% as you can't access Skipton and Ilkley from Leeds by going through the centre of Bradford by train.

 

This was also a Midland route with some access by the NER. I may be incorrect but I've certainly never heard of the GC on Skipton or Ilkley.

 

Maybe the Wikipaedia article on the Great Central Railway needs updating?

 

https://wiki2.org/en/Great_Central_Railway+Newton

 

e.g.
 

Quote

 

Joint working

 

Apart from the three branches in the Liverpool area, the GCR lines in the north of England were all east of Manchester but GCR trains could run from coast to coast by means of joint working with other railways. The largest of those utilized in this way were those under the Cheshire Lines Committee: the other participants were the Midland Railway and the Great Northern Railway, taking in both Liverpool and Southport. Other joint undertakings were (west to east):

 

Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham Railway (GCR/LNWR)

Oldham, Ashton and Guide Bridge Railway (GCR/LNWR)

Macclesfield, Bollington and Marple Railway (GCR/NSR); including its Hayfield branch

South Yorkshire Joint Railway (GCR, GNR, Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, MR and North Eastern Railway)

Sheffield District Railway(GCR and MidR)

West Riding and Grimsby Joint Railway (GCR/GNR) - giving access to Wakefield and thence to Leeds

Hull and Barnsley and Great Central Joint Railway - opened 1916 for freight traffic only.

 

There were also joint lines in the south:

 

Aylesbury Station Joint Committee

Great Western and Great Central Joint Railway

Banbury Junction Railway

Metropolitan and Great Central Joint Railway

Watford Joint Railway

 

 

https://wiki2.org/en/Great_Central_Railway+Newton#Joint_working

 

All this before it got almagamated into the LNER in 1923.

 

Maybe the OP's friend could model it (with imagination) on some of the double-track routes that were closed?

 

Quote

The nationalisation of the railways in 1948 led to the Great Central metals becoming part of the Eastern Region of British Railways. In 1958 the ex-Great Central was re-allocated to the Midland Region of British Railways and so were sown the seeds of its decline as a main line to London. The Midland Region was staffed by members of the former Midland Railway who had been bitter rivals of the Great Central. The run down of the GCR was inevitable as traffic was transferred to the former Midland route. Through expresses were withdrawn in 1960 and a very poor semi-fast service introduced between Nottingham and London. Country stations such as those at Belgrave & Birstall, Rothley and Quorn & Woodhouse were closed in 1963. In 1966 the line closed as a though route to London and the line was severed just south of Rugby while the proud station at Nottingham Victoria was demolished. Until 1969, when the line was finally closed,  a DMU service ran from Rugby to Nottingham Arkwright Street.

 

See "The History of the Great Central Railway" - http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/brief-history/

 

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23 hours ago, 298 said:

In terms of capacity, the Royal Albert Bridge has 80 booked workings for tomorrow, Kenilworth has 112 but that's with me counting them quickly as several freights/engineers workings share the same path but only one is activated as required.

 

As Russ P says Trowse is very busy.

 

Tomorrow Trowse will top 80 workings with 6P41 which passes at 12:15 - this excludes shunt moves or any VSTP paths which may appear, or even the ghost trains which run but never appear on (public) real time sites, lets assume 20 of the counted 80 don't run, it will still top 80 by early afternoon, with another 10 hours or so to go.

 

 

Apparently during the Ipswich tunnel blockade of the 1980s, top and tailed 'liners used to run from Ipswich - Norwich - Ely due to congestion on the more direct Bury St Edmunds route.

It wouldn't be hard to assume Ipswich and it's facilities was actually at Norwich and thus add a lot more freight then it currently sees (a few stone trains per week, a few tank trains per week and a few RHTT a day)

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1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

 

Is that 9x7 feet? You could definitely get a twin track roundy in that space

 

You’ve missed the point, he doesn’t want a double track layout but a modern day single track line with a passing loop in a station where trains can pass.  His remit is that it was once double track but singled as a economy measure but has since become busy with Intermodal traffic using it as a diversion route.

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A possible idea is pretend BR did go ahead with singling the entire line from Swindon to Standish Junction. That would suggest Kemble as the obvious (only?) station with passing loop. There could be some Southampton/Tilbury/Felixstowe to Wentloog containers diverted via Gloucester.

 

Cheers

David

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3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Without the condescending "Merkan" word (took me a while to work out what it was!!), that was pretty much my thought on the request - trying to use American (& Canadian!! ;) ) railroad operating practice on a British-outline layout. Just doesn't work like that over here - our distances are too short, for one thing, to have a "busy" single track main line of any significance.

No condescendence intended and please accept my apology if any offence has been caused by my use of the term.

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Single track is some ways more interestingt than double as trains have to stop and restart when crossing others. For modern image 2018 on Highland Main Line with a greatly speeded up clock sounds like the best fit.  Maybe Schloct Summit, I know it no longer has a platform but it does see Sleeping Car trains, Hst /800s on KX trains, short HSTs, and 4/5 car 158/170(?) on Glasgow/Edinburgh trains and Intermodals  Tesco/LowCO  and other freight. Oil to Cullodden maybe even some timber traffic from wayside sidings, Moy?  Trouble is big gaps in the Timetable    The Loops between Carr Bridge and Culodden have a straight run on one track and the first train to arrive goes into the loop and the second goes straight down the straight road.   Make a great US style  scenery dominated layout,  Maybe Loped 8 visible summit at the top of the 1 in 60 grades and FY directly below.

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48 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

But that assumes that the entire room is available for railway use, which may not be the case.

 

The room is 13ft long but his working space for the layout is 9x7ft.  I’ll put the “looped 8” to him but I’m unsure of his wood butchery skills 

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2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

But it's double track by the time it gets to Blea Moor, isn't it?

 

You can imagine the S&C was singled. Bearing in mind that almost every Transport Secretary in the 80s wanted to close the line entirely. Ridley even said it should be closed because increasing numbers of people were travelling on it simply to enjoy the scenery rather than for any genuine transport need.

 

Cheers

David

Edited by DavidB-AU
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Oxford to Worcester ticks some of the requested boxes, but not a whole lot of freight goes that way. It's more of a single line intercity route.

 

The GSW from Kilmarnock to Troon/ Barrhead might be relevant too?

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2 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Golden valley line swindon - kemble was only recently double tracked again, after originally being double track then singled back in the day. 
some sort of freight must surely go up towarda gloucester way from swindon

 

Some, but funnily enough, most of the freight I see on that line (in office hours) is going the other way (towards Swindon). Usually when being diverted via Gloucester because of work on the main Swindon to South Wales line. But mayby it goes the other way at night.

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